OVERWHELMED NEWBIE

[IRONSIGHT]

   Hello Guys,

First of all I would like to say I'm new to this site, and I have never built a longrifle. I would like to build myself a poor boy long rifle for my first rifle so I don't overwhelm myself to much.  Doing the work does
not scare me.  What I would like to know are the MUST HAVE tools, books, etc. I will need to get started.
Have spoken with a few builders in my neck of the woods that said they will help guide me through,
however just wanted to get some of your input.

                                                                                A NEWBIE 

[Kentucky Jeff]

A good start would be a couple of books...  "The Gunsmith of Greenville County" by Peter Alexander and "Recreating the American Longrifle" by George Shumway are both classic texts on the subject.  There are several very good videos one can purchase or rent as well.  The Hershall House video on building a longrifle is good...you'll be amazed at how few tools that guy uses.  Jim Chambers sells a video on putting together a kit which is worthwhile too..

If you can afford it come to the NMLRA gunsmithing course in Bowling Green this Spring after Friendship and you can take the rifle building course which will put you through a complete kit build from soup to nuts in one week!    There is also a similar class offered in the fall at Conner Prairie near Indianapolis.

There are a ton of resources out there.   Spend some time researching all the aspects of building a rifle before you go out and buy a bunch of tools.   You'll end up making about half your tools anyhow as you'll find that there simply doesn't exist a scraper for that corner of a lock inlet etc and you can make one on a grinding wheel and sharpening stone  out of a used hack saw blade and some duct tape that works better than anything you could buy. 

This site is a great resource as well and I'd encourage you to learn how to use the search feature of the forum but also don't be afraid to ask a question either...we are a friendly bunch...

Lastly, try to see and hold as many originals as you can.   Museums, collections, gun shows etc.  Nothing you do will give you a better understanding of longrifle archetecture and feel than the real thing!   Go out of your way to do this if you have to. 

[northmn]

I would bet that there is a noticible difference between builders in what they consider essential tools.  One problem is that some of use make a few.  I burn firewood and as such have a collection of round files that I  grind into mini chisels.  Hacksaw blades make great scrapers for everything from barrel channels to inlays.  One of the best set of tools you can get is a set of good sharpening systems.  I have diamond hones as well as regular stones.  I also use a bandsaw and a set of planes to slab off escess wood.  Some depends on the level of hand work you like to do also.  Many of the more experienced builders shy away from power tools as they can mess up a build quickly and massively.

DP

[Ken G]

Ironsight,
The tools you will need will depend on what you intend to build the poorboy from.  Are you going to use a precarve / preshaped stock or work from a blank?  Will the barrel and ram rod already be inlet?  If you are working from a precarve and only building one gun, you can get by with surprising few tools if you have to. 

[rcall]

I have a question that I might have missed in the past postings. Has anyone information or a tutorial about laying out a blank for a rifle?Maybe show some tricks as to rod and lock configuration or is it a job as you progress?Also butt drop and wood width for the correct drop and width for having enough wood to work with? sorry if someone has already asked? any where to read or obtain info ?

[t.caster]

rcall, that is why you NEED to get ahold of the previously mentioned gun building books! All the things you mentioned need to be planned (located) ahead of time. Remember the old saying...."measure twice, cut once"? Forget that...measure four times cut once! Don't proceed without a thorough plan!
Good luck!

[northmn]

Ideally you have enough wood so that you can eyeball the wrist area and try to get some straight grain through the wrist.  It also helps to have other guns or templates.  I am going through this type of orientation now with a walnut blank that I want to put a 5 1/4" deep buttplate on.  Were I using a 4 3/4 I would have no problem.  There is a small section of sapwood that I am trying to avoid.  Part of it is personal.  Length of Pull (LOP) Drop at the comb and drop at the buttplate. I am now using 13 1/2" LOP, 3 to 3 1/2 drop at butt.  You can vary a little with the drop at the comb.   Also I lay out for 1/4" cast off on wider butt stocks.  For a poorboy straight barrel I would lay out so that I had a weak 3/16 web (distance between barrel and ramrod channel and maintain through the ramrod hole.  Look at the figure on the blank and determine which side you may want to use or to avoid any imperfections.  Most blanks can be laid out more to one side.  Narrow width buttplates permit more than wider ones.  CENTER LINES ARE AN ABSOLUTE NECESSITY.  You should have a square side so that you can lay out a center line on both top and bottom through out the gun and inlet to them from the muzzle to the buttplate.

DP

[Roger Fisher]

I have a question that I might have missed in the past postings. Has anyone information or a tutorial about laying out a blank for a rifle?Maybe show some tricks as to rod and lock configuration or is it a job as you progress?Also butt drop and wood width for the correct drop and width for having enough wood to work with? sorry if someone has already asked? any where to read or obtain info ?

Simply a suggestion of course, but if you have a completed rifle of which you intend to copy hang it over your work bench slightly above eye level and within reach or beg, or borrow one from a friend for the same purpose.  If the buddy will not loan you one for the period of time it will take make a tracing of one and then cut it out as a pattern.   Hope this helps.  btw if you are copying another rifle or using one such for a pattern make sure the ol girl fits you before so doing!!  Chuck Dixons book (as said before) is good for this and he walks you thru the entire project.  As you progress you will notice over time that you are less and less overwhelmed although the learning period is never ending.  Our skills or lack thereof control our results in building and of course in shooting them!   My own such skills need plenty of work and I'm at it since 76.  (1976 )

[G-Man]

Everybody has their own preferences, but I would get the most straightforward instructional book on basic assembly and building and spend the other money on a book or two with good photos of originals in the style you are interested in.

For basic assembly, to me, Chuck Dixon's "Art of Recreating the Pennsylvania Longrifle" and Jim Johnston's "Buidling the Kentucky Rifle" are a lot of bang for the buck and cover the basic layout, and have clear, concise drawings.  The Alexander book has a lot of good information, but to me some of the good basic stuff you really need as a first time builder gets lost in the weeds along the way, especially if you are starting with a precarved stock.  The Hershel House video and companion book are good - I would say they would compliment one of the more basic books nicely.

For originals, Jerry Noble's books are about the only resource out there dedicated to southern Appalachian mountain rifles, if that is what you are wanting to build.  But even if you don't want to build an early rifle, the Shumway "Rifles of Colonial America" vol. 1 and 2 are essential to any longrifle builder, I think, since they have dimensions and can teach you a lot about proportion and layout  and if you get them now you will thank yourself someday when they are out of print again!

The reference books are lacking a little with tips on finishes etc.  A lot of good info on this sort of stuff can be found in the archives on this website.

Finally - there are great shows that you can attend and there are many collectors who are generous enough to bring their originals and display them, and will let you study these pieces closely.  Always ask of course, but you will find that if you go to a few shows you will find yourself face to face with that original you've seen in the books and want to copy.  Nothing beats being able to handle one and see all angles, the balance, etc.  They always look different in person than on a book's pages!

Good luck

Guy

[Bill of the 45th]

Good recomendations so far.  Mine is what not to get and /or use.  Stay away from power tools, and especially the devil incarnate, the DREMIL tool.  It will cause you more grief, and heartache, than, you can ever imagine.   Don't ask how I know this, it's too painful, and costly to talk about.   There are many better ways to do jobs on a build.  Welcome to the best forum on the net.

Bill

[P.W.Berkuta]

AMEN to all the above, and I will add this ---- get a cheap blank stock of hard maple (about $35) half stock and start carving, inletting, drilling, shaping, staining and finishing on it. In other words PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE on this BEFORE you work on your intended project. Get use to some of your own pitfalls that will befall you and see how you can work them out with the tools that you have on hand then go buy the right tool for that job.

[IRONSIGHT]

        Hey guys thanks for the input. Love the sight, however not real handy will this thing they call a computer. Once I actually get started I will do my best to keep you guys up to date. I am planing on staying away from the power tools, researching as much as possible, and checking all my measurements twice.  Never posted anything before on a forum just trying to get the feel for it.

                                                                Thanks again for the input,
                                                                                            IRONSIGHT

[rcall]

A generous "Thank You" for the info! will look up the books.

[rick landes]

With regard to the books...check them out thru interlibrary loan for free and then buy after seeing what you like to own...

[J.D.]

The same can be said for the DVDs. Those not available through interlibrary loan can be rented from Smartflix for a week at a time.

http://smartflix.com/store/category/75/Kits-Scratchbuilt

[northmn]

Good recomendations so far.  Mine is what not to get and /or use.  Stay away from power tools, and especially the devil incarnate, the DREMIL tool.  It will cause you more grief, and heartache, than, you can ever imagine.   Don't ask how I know this, it's too painful, and costly to talk about.   There are many better ways to do jobs on a build.  Welcome to the best forum on the net.

Bill

AMEN

DP

[Rich]

While DVD's seem helpful, they do not provide the mechanical detail of good books. On a DVD, a rifle gets built in an hour or so. My guess is that some stuff is being skipped over. The books recommended by Kentucy Jeff are very good and have enough information to allow you to build a rifle. This site is also a major resource. Before each step, look at the tutorial section and do an archive search.   

[altankhan]

on p. 22 of Buchele, Shumway, and Alexander's Recreating the American Longrifle (1991 edition) there is a picture of the basic tools that Buchele  suggested  -- hand saw, hand drill, brace, hacksaw, various rasps and chisels, etc. -- might be worth a look -- add a couple of vices and maybe a flat sided hatchet and you can make a poor boy gun with these tools -- though it will be the 'hard" way -- I am not very skilled or accomplished, but I have made several simple hunting guns using these tools, examining original guns, and getting lots of advice from my friends who actually know how to make these things and books, videos, etc. as other suggest ...  my point is, you can make one with simple, inexpensive tools -- most of mine were bought in flea markets -- one of my main tools on my first poor boy was a sharpened screw driver

[J.D.]

While DVD's seem helpful, they do not provide the mechanical detail of good books. On a DVD, a rifle gets built in an hour or so. My guess is that some stuff is being skipped over.

Agreed, though, IMHO, DVDs used in conjunction with the books can be very helpful.