General discussion > Black Powder Shooting
shooting without wiping between shots
Richard Snyder:
I have seen many references on this forum and others about various lubes allowing people to shoot many times without wiping the bore between shots. Many range rules require people to wipe between shots for safety reasons. I have not seen much said about the safety of shooting without wiping between shots. Can anyone clarify this?
Richard Snyder
northmn:
As to safety, in theory wiping between shots is supposed to eliminate any embers so that you do not get a face full of flash when loading the next round. As to lubes, those that do not wipe use a wet lube that cleans. Grease lubes will not permit as much continuous shooting as wet lubes but hold up better for long hauls. GG Granddad may have left his gun loaded for days before shooting. A wet lube would evaporate which is one reason he used tallow.
DP
Jerry V Lape:
Richard,
The National Muzzleloading Rifle Association's recommended procedure for safety reasons is to wipe between shots. Among the factors which contributed to their adaption of that procedure are the possiblity of embers from previous shot, and a build up of fouling which might interfere with fully seating the ball on the powder charge. Gaps between ball and charge are known to result in barrel failure with injuries to the shooter and those nearby.
Individuals varying from the wiping procedure, and other safety measures, are big boys and assume whatever risk is entailed when shooting on their own. However at the range safety is a product (and responsibility) of the everyone there. The NMLRA procedures set a high yet reasonable standard for safety of the range population.
Daryl:
DP - spot-on- many of us use LehighValley Lube, while others use a concoction of windshield washer antifreeze (-40stuff) and a soap or neetsfoot oil, and some even use spit once the barrel is warm enough to allow it or the temp is at or above freezing. For hunting, I have a quantity of Mink Oil as well as some newly brewed concoctions I need to test.
As to the problems with embers or still burning fouling causing pre-igniton of the powder while loading, I've seen this once. The fellow, a friend was badly burned and received a piece of ramrod through his hand. Once patched up, he was back shooting. Mounties are like that - or used to be. He was using a thin patch which allowed a great deal of fouling buildup with caked powder inside the bore and probably left some burning patch down inside the bore as well. The rifle was fouled badly enough, that he was punching the ball through the patch down inside the bore, then shooting them off. We suspect a ball passed back through the stuck patch and this material caused the FOOOOOMP as he was loading the next ball. Hard to say what happened. Sounds likely to me.
On the other hand, we use tight enough ball/patch combos that there is no buildup, loading is easy from the first shot to the 50th (or 100th) and although there is some buildup in the 'chamber' area, it is inert and not much really. I have never seen or heard of a blowout while loading in 10's of thousands of shots at our club (totally all the non-wiped rounds by the guys here) I suspect out loading practises of the tight ball/patch combo is responsible.
We'd just rather shoot than wipe. When cleaning, I used a 2 1/2 pond coffee can of tap water (cool) with the breech immersed. I pump water in and out of the bore, until it is clean. I then dry with dry patches and spray in WD40, wiping that up and down as well. The 1st, 2nd and 3rd pushes of the patch spray WD40 out the vent foreably. Note that the water in the can barely takes on a bit of grey colour - not black. There is almost only one shot's fouling in the bore, plus what fouling has built up in the breech. Only enough to barely grey the water.
An expample of the way I load is in the video - I am using - 75gr. 3F in a .45 with .445" ball and .0215" (10 oz) denim patch lubed with LHV (wet). The rifle had .010" deep rifling. The other 10 oz. denim I have mic's at .020" and I sometimes use that instead - whatever is handy. I also use the thin 10oz, the .020 with the .400" ball in my .40, which has a .398" bore and .0420" groove depth for .011" rifling depth per side. The other load used in the .40, is a .395" ball and .0215" patch. It is very easy loading with a 3/8" hickory rod, same as the loads I use in the .45. If you add the numbers, you will see that these loads create compression of the ball in the bottom of the grooves ie; ball put into the muzzle then pulled out by the patch material will show heavy compression in the lead from the lands as well as some compression from the grooves as well. This load wipes down the bore when you load it, so only the last shot's fouling remains. It never builds up in the grooves to cause difficult loading. .45 barrel is .47" to the bottom of the grooves. My favourite load as mentioned measures .488", so there is .018 total compression in the bottom of the grooves - or .009" per side.
The .40's combinations run, .008" compression per side with the small .395" ball and .009" per side with the .400" ball.
When I reduce patch thickness to .015" or finer, shoot and recover the patches, I find burnt patches to strips of charred cloth. This won't do. The thinner patches don't wipe down the bore well enough, and when they burn, they allow fouling to build up shot to shot until you can't load. As well, with the tremendous buildup of fouling you run the risk of premature detonation - my theory only (well, others too)
I should also note the method used to measure the thickness gives different readings with the same material. I stopped using calipers and now only use a 1" micrometer. I get consistant readings with the mic and since I use it only, I can easily compare materials to one another. I bought some OxYoke prelubed .018" patches that measure only .015" with my mic. Although those ticking patches held together well, they did not deliver my requisite degree of accuracy. They were lubed with bore butter - well, yellow stuff anyway- wintergreen odour.
After reading Jerry's post, I must add that the rules of wiping are probably best for those who are shooting with unknowns - or persons who don't shoot tight combinations. Afterall, there was one fellow at a range I frequented who thought shooting .30/30 cases full of sand out of his .50 CVA was great fun and gave good accuracy. One never knows the experience level of the guy beside you, or exactly what he's doing. I was told yesterday, that a bloke down in the Vancouver area blew off part or all of his hand with a black powder handgun he got for Christmas. Not all BLACK powder is black power. Just a theory as to the 'explosion' he had. I wonder if he got a chance to wipe between shots ???.
Some Association rules are interesting. The Canadian Black Powder Association, or perhaps it was only the British Columbia Black Powder Association had a rule stating you had to blow down the barrel between shots. Some still do.
Mike R:
I guess I have never used as wet a patch as some because I have never been able to get more than three shots brefore wiping--but I usually wipe between every shot or every other one. I tend to load "traditionally", that is with period correct components, thus such things a tallow-lubed patches. Dan'l Boone was described by JJ Audabon [on a squirrel hunt] as wiping between every shot. If I wanted to shoot rapid fire I'd use a cartridge rifle. I shoot at a relaxed pace where running a damp patch is no bother, and IS a safety factor. While rare, embers can remain. I also shoot a cannon as a reenactor--we use 1/3 to 1/2 lbs of powder per shot. Embers DO remain and thorough wet wiping of the bore between shots is REQUIRED. Failure to do so HAS resulted in death or severe injuries to many folks. The man who taught me cannon safety learned the hard way--he is missing most of his right hand and nearly lost his life. I've had my hands for 64 yrs now and hope to keep them a bit longer--but you boys play the way you want to....
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
Go to full version