Author Topic: Swivel Breech barrel  (Read 3783 times)

pushboater

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Swivel Breech barrel
« on: May 25, 2013, 03:50:50 PM »
Does anyone know of any existing examples of Swivel Breech rifles with octagon to round barrels? I've been pondering the thought in order to take some additional weight off my Swivel Breech project. Any thoughts on the idea?

Capt. David

Offline Bill Paton

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Re: Swivel Breech barrel
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2013, 07:08:35 PM »
In my ongoing study of Kentucky double rifles, I can't recall any octagonal to round American swivel breeches. Some late percussion American swivels have full round bbls, although they seem to be a distinct minority. Many old world Jeager swivels have an octagonal rifled  barrel and round or part octagonal smooth barrel on the same gun. American swivels with swamped or tapered bbls are much better balanced than those with non-tapered bbls, reinforcing your good idea of octagonal to round bbls making your gun feel better. As I gather more data, I won't be surprised to find some American late perc ones as you describe, but will be very surprised to see an American flintlock like that. (Anybody who can surprise me will be well received and much appreciated!) I think your idea is a great one for function, and I would like to include such a rifle in the "Contemporary" section of an eventual book on Kentucky double rifles. However, in light of the ongoing discussions on this site about rifle building and schools, thicken up your skin before posting pictures ;).

I will be traveling from our Alaska home via motor home throughout the Lower 48 from June, 2013 through June, 2014, educating our kids about their country, and would like to examine as many Kentucky double rifles as possible during this coming year while on our trip. I will be delighted to have my double rifle impressions and understanding expanded as I travel, as well as having the chance to meet and put faces on other Kentucky rifle students and enthusiasts.

Bill Paton 907 230-3600
Kentucky double rifle student
wapaton.sr@gmail.com

Offline Telgan

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Re: Swivel Breech barrel
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2013, 07:13:28 PM »
I've got a nice contemporary example by David Price - Twin .50's by Dehaas (spelling not correct I am sure). It's quite handy. Almost like a buggy rifle with very short barrels.

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Swivel Breech barrel
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2013, 07:46:46 PM »
You can probably find one some place.
Making a barrel 1/2 octagonal is very likely to cause bore dimension problems unless the barrel is  contoured and well annealed  BEFORE its final reamed and rifled.
So I don't have a need for one. Swamping is bad enough.
Dan  
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Swivel Breech barrel
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2013, 07:53:39 PM »
In my ongoing study of Kentucky double rifles, I can't recall any octagonal to round American swivel breeches. Some late percussion American swivels have full round bbls, although they seem to be a distinct minority. Many old world Jeager swivels have an octagonal rifled  barrel and round or part octagonal smooth barrel on the same gun. American swivels with swamped or tapered bbls are much better balanced than those with non-tapered bbls, reinforcing your good idea of octagonal to round bbls making your gun feel better. As I gather more data, I won't be surprised to find some American late perc ones as you describe, but will be very surprised to see an American flintlock like that. (Anybody who can surprise me will be well received and much appreciated!) I think your idea is a great one for function, and I would like to include such a rifle in the "Contemporary" section of an eventual book on Kentucky double rifles. However, in light of the ongoing discussions on this site about rifle building and schools, thicken up your skin before posting pictures ;).

I will be traveling from our Alaska home via motor home throughout the Lower 48 from June, 2013 through June, 2014, educating our kids about their country, and would like to examine as many Kentucky double rifles as possible during this coming year while on our trip. I will be delighted to have my double rifle impressions and understanding expanded as I travel, as well as having the chance to meet and put faces on other Kentucky rifle students and enthusiasts.

Bill Paton 907 230-3600

The Firearms wing at the Buffalo Bill museum generally has one or two swivels on display. Lots of Hawkens, a JP Beck that is not well displayed.
Its a must see anyway and worth at least a full day when the other wings are added. Be sure to stop by the the Wyoming Armory too. Its out by the Rodeo Grounds. If you come through Sweetgrass from Canada there is A museum up by the capital in Helena with some firearms, including the Bridger Hawken.
There are two Sharps rifle makers in Big Timber MT and a pretty nice early production original 44-77 out at our tiny Museum.

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

pushboater

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Re: Swivel Breech barrel
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2013, 09:34:14 PM »
Thanks for your comments Bill. It's definitely a "Contemporary" rifle and I've already acquired rather thick skin after posting that I was going to build a "Bucks County Style" Swivel Breech. There are no surviving examples of a Swivel Breech from that particular school, so naturally my project was meet with quite a bit of skepticism. Nonetheless, I love the Bucks County Rifles, and as long as I'm building a fantasy rifle I may as well make it as light and handy as possible.

Dphariss, do you feel that turning a barrel half round will affect the inside dimensions of the barrel? If so, do you think that lapping the barrel after turning could correct the problem?

TELGAN, it's good to know that there are contemporary examples around. I'd be extremely interested in seeing a photo if you could be so kind as to post one.  Thanks everyone.

Capt. David

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Swivel Breech barrel
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2013, 03:10:26 PM »
Thanks for your comments Bill. It's definitely a "Contemporary" rifle and I've already acquired rather thick skin after posting that I was going to build a "Bucks County Style" Swivel Breech. There are no surviving examples of a Swivel Breech from that particular school, so naturally my project was meet with quite a bit of skepticism. Nonetheless, I love the Bucks County Rifles, and as long as I'm building a fantasy rifle I may as well make it as light and handy as possible.

Dphariss, do you feel that turning a barrel half round will affect the inside dimensions of the barrel? If so, do you think that lapping the barrel after turning could correct the problem?

TELGAN, it's good to know that there are contemporary examples around. I'd be extremely interested in seeing a photo if you could be so kind as to post one.  Thanks everyone.

Capt. David

I don't "feel" is will effect the bore dimensions unless done as I state its almost certain to cause a change.

I don't see a problem with building a Bucks county swivel breech.  But I seriously doubt if there was an original it would have a 1/2 oct barrel.

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

pushboater

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Re: Swivel Breech barrel
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2013, 04:34:51 PM »
I appreciate your input Dan. Thank you.

Capt. David