Author Topic: May 25th post of an antique rifle  (Read 6867 times)

Offline art riser

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May 25th post of an antique rifle
« on: May 27, 2013, 02:50:38 AM »

Offline Majorjoel

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Re: May 25th post of an antique rifle
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2013, 03:20:59 PM »
About all that comes to mind about this interesting flintlock rifle are all of the never before seen features it carries. Starting with the metal over-lapping flap at the base of the wooden sliding patch\trap box. The shape of the lock panel surround with the pointed forward end and the absence of a tail end?? May just be cut off from the photo? No butt plate and never had one. From the look of the missing trigger guard mortice, there once was a simple guard. I can only wonder if it was iron or brass. If I had to guess the origins of this piece I would place it somewhere around West Virginia or SW Virginia. A late flintlock hog rifle. A cool rifle and a good mystery.
Joel Hall

IKE

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Re: May 25th post of an antique rifle
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2013, 06:31:25 PM »
I like it. Thanks Art.

Offline Collector

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Re: May 25th post of an antique rifle
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2013, 07:41:41 PM »
I was wondering if this longrifle was going to come back into view, after the auction and for comment- and it has.  ;D

It has very nice lines and proportion going for it and will definitely draw your attention.  I was going to bid on this piece, but it went for substantially more than I was prepared to put in it.  I think the fact that the barrel is 'signed' contributed substantially to the final price, plus the undeniable fact, that this piece just 'presents,' so @!*% well.

The barrel is ~ 46 inches, as I recall.  I may be wrong, but it looks to retain it's hand forging/heat lines along the surfaces of it's flats (not draw filed, but still beautifully finished- a VERY KOOL element, IMHO) and gracefully swamped, which definitely contributes to those nice lines.  

The lock looks original, but the military-ish hole in the bolt for the lock jaws isn't something, I think, you'd see everyday on a lock this size (adds to the KOOL.)  

The stock has had some restoration work along the way- someone spliced in a piece of walnut at the tang area on the lock side.  (Why they would use walnut when there's a ton of maple floating around, I've no idea.)  

There's not enough detail in the photographs in and around the patch box to tell much.  I'm not sure that we'll see another 'latching' system quite like that one, but it made sense to somebody and the real surprise, is that it's still there.  Maybe there was an earth magnet in the butt- I don't know.

It's got a VA, possibly NC look to it.  I'm surprised it has a trigger plate, but by the style of the trigger plate I'd say maybe 1810-ish.  

It has a certain KOOL factor about it and I hope the new owner will get rid of that walnut splice, fill-in the trigger guard feature and make it whole again.  (It's just so easy to say, when it's not your money, isn't it?)  It's possible that the trigger guard was even just nailed on, with small shoemaker type nails.  Wouldn't be the first time.  Essentially, it was a 'parts' gun to begin and as long as no new wood is removed to make parts 'fit,' I wouldn't see a problem with that.  Wipe everything down with some Howard's Feed-N-Wax to nourish the wood and metal, while protecting the patina and you're good to go.  

Personally, I'd like to see more of this piece.  This piece is certainly wrapped in a riddle, as obviously the maker had some training and was reasonably skilled.  Maybe... there's yet more to find under that barrel and lock.  ???
« Last Edit: May 27, 2013, 08:09:47 PM by Collector »

Offline rich pierce

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Re: May 25th post of an antique rifle
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2013, 07:59:07 PM »
I like it a lot also and wonder if the maker decided to use a different latch given there was no buttplate to catch the patchbox spring.  I think the gun could have been made anywhere even Pennsylvania where Berlin rifles sometimes exhibit similar shaping of the lock molding at the front.  If the lock is all original it appears it had a roller on the frizzen spring and looks 1800-ish to me.  Really cool rifle.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Collector

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Re: May 25th post of an antique rifle
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2013, 07:11:17 AM »
Well Art, you've heard from a few of us, now it's your turn.

You've more than a passing interest.  What do you think?

Offline art riser

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Re: May 25th post of an antique rifle
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2013, 09:05:18 PM »
The folks on this site are far more knowledgeable than I, but my guess is that it was made by someone who was a pretty fair craftsman.  He knew what a rifle gun was supposed to look like, but may not have been primarily a gunsmith.

I hope that someone runs across this piece and can shed some light on it.  For now it remains a mystery.  
« Last Edit: May 30, 2013, 04:25:07 AM by art riser »

oakridge

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Re: May 25th post of an antique rifle
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2013, 05:19:38 AM »
I didn't see it addressed, so can I assume the barrel signature is illegible?

Offline art riser

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Re: May 25th post of an antique rifle
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2013, 02:37:53 PM »
yes...

Offline Collector

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Re: May 25th post of an antique rifle
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2013, 06:45:58 PM »
The barrel appears to have initials; the first being a tall letter 'A' that is thin-ish, open-bottomed/pointed top upper case (a capital letter, for us older folks,) with a deliberate slanting (from bottom, to top) to the right.  The next initial- I can't make it out, from the current photo.  

If I'm correct on the barrel, then the barrel maker/blacksmith was a person of considerable skill.  The patch box may be a curiosity, but the barrel, if entirely hand worked, by hammer, anvil and swage block is a work of art, in class all by itself.

I had hoped it would languish in a sea of disinterest at the auction- I was sooooooooooo wrong.  :P

Anyone else have any thoughts on that barrel?  ???
« Last Edit: May 30, 2013, 06:54:55 PM by Collector »

Offline louieparker

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Re: May 25th post of an antique rifle
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2013, 08:06:08 PM »
I also entered a bid on this rifle . As Collector said  it was more appreciated than I had hoped it would be. I did get to see it after the auction. So I can tell you how the barrel is signed . Signed in script....A Milliron . With four small circles forming a sort of diamond between the initial and the last name. Louie



 

Online JTR

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Re: May 25th post of an antique rifle
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2013, 08:35:54 PM »
Sellers has an Anthony Milliron, Indiana Co, PA. 1805/1806.
The date could work for this rifle, but somehow I don't see the maker being a guy named Tony....

So, I curious, how much did the gun sell for,,,, or what auction and when?

John
John Robbins

Offline Mark Tyler

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Re: May 25th post of an antique rifle
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2013, 09:05:16 PM »
What auction house was it at and what was the final price tag?

Offline Collector

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Re: May 25th post of an antique rifle
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2013, 06:01:06 AM »
I stand corrected.  The barrel length was 45 inches. 

Auction link and details, to follow below:

http://www.cowansauctions.com/auctions/item.aspx?ItemId=116640

COWAN'S AUCTIONS:

Auction: 10/25/2012 - Historic Firearms and Militaria: Live Salesroom Auction
Firearms > Sporting Firearms - American > Long Gun-Flint

AUCTION DESCRIPTION: 

Relic Kentucky Flintlock Rifle

50 caliber, 45" octagonal flared barrel.  Maple stock. Barrel is signed but the markings are dim.
Condition: Stock is missing the buttplate, triggerguard.   The lock is in good working order and has nice patina.

PRICE REALIZED (Including premium): $3,220.00  (Auction estimate was ~$800.00)

Offline Majorjoel

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Re: May 25th post of an antique rifle
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2013, 04:46:46 PM »
I find it interesting that the auction description says that the butt plate is missing. Meaning that it once had one. From the pictures I see a plateless poor boy type rifle. Must have holes where a plate had been. It would be cool to have this rifle in hand and inspect all of the fine points.
Joel Hall

Offline Collector

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Re: May 25th post of an antique rifle
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2013, 12:58:15 AM »
I find it interesting that the auction description says that the butt plate is missing. ... I see a plateless poor boy type rifle. ...

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...   ::)

A "Relic" is supposed to have stuff miss'n and be totally uninteresting to a lot of folks.  I didn't mean me.  But to a lot of folks.

I had this one pegged as a real 'sleeper.'  :P


Offline Stophel

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Re: May 25th post of an antique rifle
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2013, 08:57:09 PM »
I can't see any latching mechanism for the box lid.  Just the wierd metal piece attached to the end, and inletted into the butt end grain (it definitely was made without buttplate).

I am fascinated by these types of arms (as is everyone else), and it seems that lately more and more of them are coming out of the woodwork... and they are getting earlier and earlier.
When a reenactor says "They didn't write everything down"   what that really means is: "I'm too lazy to look for documentation."