PC/HC?

[hanshi]

Normally I don't care all that much but do care concerning my next (hopefully) acquisition.  No builder decided yet and $$ not yet squirreled away.  We're talking a Tn Poor Boy .32 x 42" flint.  Besides my short lop I'm thinking of a Rice "A" weight swamped barrel, can't handle too heavy/nose heavy.  It should "hang" well and have good balance.  I'm thinking a straight barrel will be either too skinny or too heavy (for me).  Period will be 1800 to 1820.  Right now considering an L&R late English or a Chambers late Ketland lock.  I'm asking around the forums trying to get a consensus from knowledgeable historians & shooters.

[Dan'l 1946]

  I've got a .32 caliber Tennessee rifle with a 42" 13/16" barrel. Definitely nose heavy though it does hold steady. I would go with a 3/4" barrel were I to do it over.
                                                     Dan

[rich pierce]

It's helpful to provide your builder with some guidance based on actual originals, in addition to a location/timeframe.  Look at originals and you'll come up with something less generic and with more character.

[Pete G.]

I built a 40 on an A barrel and it is a little twitchy. If I had it to do over I would go with a B weight. Perhaps .32 will be ok. Compare the weights and see. A 3/4"straight barrel might be an option worth considering for the style you are building.

[Dennis Glazener]

We're talking a Tn Poor Boy .32 x 42" flint.  Besides my short lop I'm thinking of a Rice "A" weight swamped barrel, can't handle too heavy/nose heavy.  It should "hang" well and have good balance

I built a cherry stocked slim/lightweight rifle using a 44" Rice 32 "A" weight swamped barrel and I am very pleased with the way it "hangs". Of course I am no off hand target shooter but I am not sure I would want anymore weight in the barrel for that caliber.

Several years ago when the Green Mountain "A" profiles came out I built a 38" 40 caliber using their "A" profile and that rifle was way to muzzle light for off hand shooting. I am not sure but I think I read that the first "A" profiles were too light and they changed the profile later on. I am not sure but I did not like that rifle for off hand shooting.
Dennis
 

[Dennis Glazener]

Got to thinking after I posted, you might like the Rice "Southern Classic" barrel in a 32. Its only made in a 42" and is considered an "A" profile but its not as much "swamp" in it as the regular 42" "A" profile. It might be better for you than going to a "B" profile barrel. See the dimensions here http://www.ricebarrels.com/chart.html

Check with John Getz but I know that he makes a very similiar barrel in 45 and 50 caliber and may make one in a 32. I think he calls it his lightweight barrel.
Dennis

[David Rase]

Check with John Getz but I know that he makes a very similar barrel in 45 and 50 caliber and may make one in a 32. I think he calls it his lightweight barrel.
Dennis

Dennis, I just inlet one of John's light weight barrels for a gentleman in Maryland.  Johncalls it his Newcomer barrel.  It was 44" long x .45 caliber.  I did a side by side comparison of the Newcomer barrel to my 44" A weight .40 caliber Green Mtn.  barrel.  It had a standard A weight .950 breech diameter but the muzzle diameter was less than the standard .815".  It was closer to .765".  A really nice barrel.
David 

[hanshi]

The Rice Southern Classic is very tempting and looks to be an excellent choice.

[smylee grouch]

I have used several of the L&R late english and Chambers late ketland locks and have had my best results with the Chambers although the L & R wasnt too bad.  It might be worth while to say that I have had top noch service from both lock makers.

[bjmac]

Please explain the differences between the "A", "B", and "C" weight barrels to me. Also, will a swamped barrel and a tapered barrel as well as a straight barrel differ from these definitions?
Thanks in advance.
BJ

[rich pierce]

These terms refer to the diameters at the breech.  A weight will be the narrowest, B intermediate, C heavier, and D only available in large calibers.  See each barrel makers info sheet or page for specifics.  Colerain specs are available at the Track of the Wolf site.

[halfstock]

Just a rule of thumb that I use, 32=3/4, 36=13/16, 45=7/8, 50=15/16, 54=1. As I said just my humble rule of thumb but might be helpful.

[gunmaker]

Seems to be some discussion on another forum about Poor-boys (whatever that is)  not likely having swamped bbl. for HC/PC.  Are the majority of Southern rifles swamped or straight ??  enquiring minds want to know.   experts please   ....Tom

[rich pierce]

That's a big general question covering over 100 years and a lot of territory.  What time period?  If we are talking late flint, iron-mounted rifles the swamp will usually be present but subtler than a 18th century rifle.

[Dennis Glazener]

I have measured the barrels of 3 southern true poor boys and they were all swamped but no where near as much swamp as the commercial barrels we see today. All three of these rifles were originally flints and probably made in the 1810-1830. All three were hand forged barrels.

I agree with Rich, the time frame and whether they were hand forged or not has more to do with it than anything else.
Dennis

[hanshi]

It's the 1800 to 1820 period I'm thinking about and that's (one of) the reasons I prefer a swamped barrel.  Balance and handling are just as important, too.

[WaterFowl]

Shooting a 42" gm 36 cal a wt. golden age swamped barrel...good shooter too!
 from TOTW....Our ‘A' profile small caliber Golden Age barrel has a .950" breech, .700" waist, .762" muzzle.
Check and see what Rice offers.
side note..also use a solid brass rr.

[Mark Elliott]

I would recommend a Rice Southern Classic barrel for these rifles.   It had the right profile and is not all that heavy.    It is not like the originals though.  To used the word balanced to describe the original rifles from SW VA, E TN, and W NC is a real stretch.   These tended to be very heavy barrels because they were small calibers and started out fairly long.   I think most started life around 46" and you don't see them much shorter than 44".    You take a barrel 1" across at the breech in 32 caliber and 44-45" long and you have a rifle the is almost impossible to shoot offhand.   In point of fact,  I don't think they were intended to be shot offhand.    So,  with regard to the original southern mountain rifle,   balance and hang are in appropriate terms in my opinion.   If you want a rifle in that style, fine, but pick a barrel that will work best for your use. 

If you want to be period correct with the rifle,  then you have to pick a period and region of gun that best suites your need.    Late southern rifles were used for small game and target shooting from a rest.   

[G-Man]

I am not sure what rifles others have looked at, but I have looked at quite a few antique "poor boy" Appalachian rifles and found the same as Dennis on the ones I have seen - the vast majority - regardless of whether they are 1820s, 1840s or 1860s that I have seen are swamped.  I am not a barrel smith but others who are have told me that it is easier to make a hand hammered barrel in a swamped profile than to make a perfectly straight sided barrel as the skelp sort of lends itself to that shape as it stretches as is it is heated, wrapped and hammered to weld it. And many of the mountain gunsmiths continued to make their own barrels long after commercially made straight sided barrels became available and this practice died off in other regions

Also - as Dennis said, the profiles on many of these are different from what folks find comfortable today - often the narrow waist is just about midway or just a little farther down the length and the muzzle diameter is about the same as the breech, and they are long.  You have to feel the taper and flare with your fingers or mic it to see if it is there as it is often almost imperctible at first glance so I think a loit of guys are looking for something like we are more accustomed to seeing on contemporary barrels and don't even realize it is there. So I think that is a source of some of the statements about many of the barrles being straight

And they are often heavy - it is not uncommon to see 32-42 caliber bores in 45+ inch barrels that may be 15/16 at the muzzle. 

So I would go with a swamped profie with no concerns  They were used for sure.

GM

[Acer Saccharum]

Or go with a straight profile, since the swamp is so hard to detect......

[Acer Saccharum]

I looked at the Kuntz rifles in the Met collection, and had to measure them to determine if they were swamped or straight. One was swamped, the other, a straight taper.

These don't relate to Mtn rifles in any way, but more to the idea that not all barrels were swamped, no standards can be applied, and these were handmade objects.

[Dennis Glazener]

I agree that most of the southern mountain rifle barrels, even the swamped ones were too dang heavy to build one for hunting/shooting today. i don't see how in the world that they could have been shot offhand! BUT not all of these rifles were that way. I know where there is an original Mathew Gillespie that has a 42 inch barrel with dimensions very close to the Rice Southern Classics and the Getz lightweight barrel. Now I don't feel bad about building my Gillespie's with those barrels and enjoy shooting them far more than with those long heavy 1.035" and 1.062" breech barrels so loved by the old time makers.
Dennis

[hanshi]

Building an authentic rifle is important with this one.  But certain concessions will have to be made on the build for me to be able to handle and shoot it.  Due to physical disabilities weight and balance are major factors; plus I have a very short lop.  Considering all the nameless gun builders in the early Appalachian period, there has to have been a great deal of variability with these guns.  Thanks, all, for the helpful information.  Swamped it will be but no longer than 42" which for me is ideal.

[shortbarrel]

get a straight barrel and file a little swamp in it, if you can build a rifle, you surely have enough skill to draw file the swamp in it. never seen a mountain rifle that did't have a slight swamp in then.

[JTR]

hanshi,
I have an original rifle similar to what you're considering, so I'll give you some dimensions, and that might help you with some idea of weight and balance. The rifle is made with a single bolt percussion lock now, but the barrel is on it's second use (at least) because it has a notch filed in the bottom flat for the forward bolt on a flintlock.
The barrel is a hand made one and is 44 1/2" long. About .40 caliber. The breech end measures .952", the muzzle about .895" and the waist of the swamp is .812", and that measurement is 7" back from the muzzle.
The overall length of the rifle is 60 1/2" long. The LOP is 13 1/2" to the front trigger. The rifle weighs about 8 1/2 pounds, and the balance point is 30 1/4" back from the muzzle, right about where you'd expect at the area of the rear sight and RR entry pipe.
This gun points and balances pretty nice, not overly muzzle heavy, but if you're concerned about weight and muzzle heaviness, I'd certainly consider a lighter weight barrel than this one.

John