Info on Fainot patchbox

[rich pierce]

I am planning a Fainot fowler with a patchbox.  Fainot used a complete surround around a side-opening patchbox.  I'm looking for details having only seen pictures.  I have inquiries in to a collector but am eager to get my design stuff in place so....

Is the hinge part of or separate from the surround?

If separate, is the standing part of the hinge just like a Bucks County hinge, vertical in the PB cavity?

It looks like there is one wide central knuckle and then 3 on each side from the low res pictures I've seen.  Is the wide knuckle (if there) part of the lid?

What's a guesstimate of the thickness of the lid and surround?

Thanks for any help.

[rich pierce]

Duh, our own fantastic library has a lot of detailed pictures including these 2.




So now I've got to interpret what i think I see.  

Looking at the closed patchbox I see that the lid hinge is formed by a large overlapping fold which is then riveted in place using brass rivets.  See the rivet spots?

Now- I see no knuckles at all.  And I see no standing hinge leaf vertical in the cavity, as we would see in a Bucks County box.  I am inclined to hypothesize that the lid is the whole hinge!  That there is no standing arm, but a strong hinge pin extends beyond the lid fore and aft and is inlet into the wood underneath the surround.  What do you think of that idea?  One of the reasons I think this is that the opening spring projects from under the hinge side surround and I cannot see how that could happen if there is a standing hinge leaf that is vertical like a Bucks County box.

Given the thickness it seems it was likely cast?

Many, many thanks to our Nord and everyone who contributes to the Library!

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=15403.0

[JTR]

Rich, I agree with what you see there.
Also note the rivets in the surround part of the box, on either end of the hinge. Maybe forming a loop under the surround for the hinge pin?

Also consider that someone here might well own that rifle. Perhaps Nord could put that person in contact with you?

John

[bgf]

Rich,
One thing I noticed is that the hinge barrel on the lid, though it looks solid on the exterior, appears to be cut away in the middle on the inside of the lid.  I guess he folded the entire edge of the lid, then cut away a good portion of the middle, leaving two "knuckles" on the inside of the lid, which were riveted to the lid.  No idea why he did it that way, but that's how it looks to me.  Not that I have the keenest eyesight anymore !

[rich pierce]

Also note the rivets in the surround part of the box, on either end of the hinge. Maybe forming a loop under the surround for the hinge pin?

John

John, good eyes.  Other mysteries, what are the round headed brass pins or nails in the surround doing, especially those beside the screw in the middle of the surround on the hinge side?

[spgordon]

This Fainot rifle is pictured over two pages in the Lancaster Long Rifle book produced for the recent exhibit at Landis Valley.

[rich pierce]

The more I look at it the hinge may be separate from the lid and riveted to it.  I cannot see that he lid and hinge are integral in the above rifle. 

[Acer Saccharum]

hinge barrel looks like a tube separate from the lid. tube has tabs riveted to lid. Very odd construction.

I agree that the extended hinge pin would be captive under riveted sheet metal retainers. You can see rivets in the face of the surround to the right of the opening.

[Jim Horn]

Rich,  The twin rivets on the surround hold the kick-open spring to the surround.  The singular rivet is for the closure mechanism.  there is also a tiny tab next to that rivet, on the edge of the sorround. 
jim

[rich pierce]

Thanks, Jim.  There's not another place in the world where one can get so much expert help.