Author Topic: Aqua fortis and accra glass  (Read 6884 times)

Offline varsity07840

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Aqua fortis and accra glass
« on: January 08, 2009, 04:32:14 PM »
Does anyone have an opinion on what(if any) the result would be from aqua fortis applied over  accra glas? My buttplate is bedded and there is a very, very thin line between wood and metal. Al Edge says he does it all the time but he uses alcohol stains and he has no problems. Would I be better off that way? I do like the look of the acid stain on maple but I don't
want to create any problems so close to the end of this project.

Thanks,

Duane

Offline Ed Wenger

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Re: Aqua fortis and accra glass
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2009, 06:22:40 PM »
Duane...

I don't think the accra glass would work real well with aqf....  If the gap is that small (and I'm assuming it's on the butt, not on the tang portion) you might want to try peening (hammering) the brass to fit tight to the wood.  Anneal the brass first and it should be soft enough.  Just be really careful in the toe area because you could break it off.  Hope that helps.

Ed
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Offline Dphariss

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Re: Aqua fortis and accra glass
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2009, 07:05:37 PM »
Does anyone have an opinion on what(if any) the result would be from aqua fortis applied over  accra glas? My buttplate is bedded and there is a very, very thin line between wood and metal. Al Edge says he does it all the time but he uses alcohol stains and he has no problems. Would I be better off that way? I do like the look of the acid stain on maple but I don't
want to create any problems so close to the end of this project.

Thanks,

Duane

Try acra-glas and AF on a scrap.
I would scrape the glas out and either refit and/or pean the buttplate.
However, there are bronze castings out there that are harder the pean but it *should* still work.
To make glass bed "invisible" the fit needs to be within a few thousands.
Its best to dye the glass pretty dark and if the layer is thin.
The only gun I can recall using acra-glas on as a fill was one I did as a favor to a friend that had had the lock mortise REALLY hogged out by other ML "gun hacker". It looked OK when it left the shop.

Buttplates can be a real PITA to fit but you have to have SHARP tools and good scrapers. Be careful and THINK carefully about what is going on. Get the extension up the comb to match the comb line with the buttplate "plumb" vertically then just keep removing wood at the front of the extension and the end of the stock to move it forward on the stock till it fits. Use inletting black and only cut where it marks. DO NOT drill any screw holes in the stock until the fit is at least 99%.
Use screws with hardened heads and keep them nice. Changing screws at final assembly can shift the plate since most wood screws have heads that are not centered to the shaft of the screw. They tend to be all different.
It is sometimes necessary to plug and redrill screw holes.

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: Aqua fortis and accra glass
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2009, 07:09:07 PM »
Darn good info - Thanks Dan!

Offline Ky-Flinter

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Re: Aqua fortis and accra glass
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2009, 08:13:50 PM »
Duane,

On my last rifle build I used Acra-Glas gel to bed the breech and fill in a 1/32" gap next to the tang.  I mixed in some of the brown dye that comes with it to color the Acra-Glas dark.  Months later I stained my stock using home-made aqua fortis and it did not seem to have any effect on the harden Acra-Glas as far as softening or lifting, &c.  I don't know if it darkened it any, as it was already tinted pretty dark. 

Before I used the AF on my stock I mixed up some Acra-Glas and applied it to some scrap test pieces.  Once it was good and dry, I tested my AF on it.  I would suggest you do the same....  Your AF may react differently than my homebrew!  Good luck!

-Ron
« Last Edit: January 08, 2009, 08:31:36 PM by KyFlinter »
Ron Winfield

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keweenaw

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Re: Aqua fortis and accra glass
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2009, 08:53:55 PM »
Acraglas, and most other bedding epoxies, are inert in aqueous solutions, even acidic ones.  AF shouldn't be strongly acid anyway as the nitric acid is largely consumed by the iron.  It won't stain. 

Tom

Offline Stophel

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Re: Aqua fortis and accra glass
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2009, 09:48:26 PM »
The heat may cause it to soften/break down.
When a reenactor says "They didn't write everything down"   what that really means is: "I'm too lazy to look for documentation."

Offline rsells

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Re: Aqua fortis and accra glass
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2009, 08:10:03 AM »
My recommendation is to call Brownell's and talk to their tech guys.  They should be able to answer your question.
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Offline longcruise

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Re: Aqua fortis and accra glass
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2009, 09:01:49 AM »
Acraglas, and most other bedding epoxies, are inert in aqueous solutions, even acidic ones.  AF shouldn't be strongly acid anyway as the nitric acid is largely consumed by the iron.  It won't stain. 

Tom

I had a pretty good sized spill of cured glass on my workbench from a bow laminating project.  It was not accraglass but probably had very similar characteristics.  Anyway, I was making AQ and spilled some of the solution on the bench and the glass before the Nitric acid was consumed and it really did a number on the cured glass.
Mike Lee

Offline Ky-Flinter

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Re: Aqua fortis and accra glass
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2009, 09:42:41 PM »
My recommendation is to call Brownell's and talk to their tech guys.  They should be able to answer your question.
                                                                     Roger Sells

Roger,

I did just that prior to applying the AF as mentioned above.  The Brownell's tech guy said "Aqua what?"  They had no clue.

-Ron
Ron Winfield

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keweenaw

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Re: Aqua fortis and accra glass
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2009, 06:47:43 PM »
What's in a name?  If you're a chemist of any age, aqua fortis is simply nitric acid.  Period.  Nothing else in it.  After all it translates as "strong water".  That use is only a couple hundred years old so one can't blame the tech guy that he didn't know about a term that we muzzleloader builders use in a way that no one else does.  Ask the tech guy about an acidic solution of ferric nitrate.  Or a dilute solution of nitric acid with iron dissolved in it. 

Tom

Offline Ky-Flinter

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Re: Aqua fortis and accra glass
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2009, 01:49:30 AM »
When I spoke with Brownell's, I think I did tell the tech guy what is in Aqua Fortis, but it has been several month's ago and my memory ain't as sharp as it once was....  so, I have submitted the following question via Brownell's website today. .....

I have used Acraglas Gel (081-014-004) to bed the breech and fill a 1/16" gap next to the tang on a curly maple stock flintlock rifle I am building.  I would like to use a traditional method of staining the wood using "Aqua Fortis", which is an acidic solution of ferric nitrate (a dilute solution of nitric acid with iron dissolved in it.)  The solution is applied to the wood, allowed to dry, then heated with a blow dryer or heat gun until the color blushes red but not burned, then the stock is neutralized with baking soda in water.

Will this have any adverse effect on the hardened and cured Acraglas?  Thanks.

I will post the reply when received.

-Ron
Ron Winfield

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Offline Ky-Flinter

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Re: Aqua fortis and accra glass
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2009, 11:28:16 PM »
Ok, so here's the reply from Brownell's tech.......

Quote
The only problem you will have will be with the heat. The gel will start to soften at about 350 deg., but if you're careful, it should not be a problem.

David Bennetts
Brownells Inc.
Technical Support

-Ron
Ron Winfield

Life is too short to hunt with an ugly gun. -Nate McKenzie