Balance

[mahtosapanumpa]

Where should a rifle balance?  My first build from a Lyman kit is very barrel heavy. An experienced shooter once showed me his rifle that balanced on the trigger.  It doesn't appear that I can add enough weight to the stock to make that happen. What do you think?

Kirby

[jerrywh]

Even a pistol don't balance on the trigger.

[mahtosapanumpa]

ok,
  Glad to hear that, but where should a rifle balance for best performance?
Kirby

[B Shipman]

IMHO, there is no such thing. Balance is a personal preference.

 In the early 80's I built a rifle for a friend that balanced on his left hand where it gripped the forestock. He hated it. The SOB sold it for a profit.  Next I built him a rifle with a straight 15/16 th in. .50 cal. Green River. Loved it. At a Blue Mtn. shoot about 1983, he tied in the primitive shoot with all hits. The tiebreaker went on for awile until the rangemaster dangled a stick between the legs of a buffalo siluette at 100 yds. The other guy hit on the cardboard just above it. Missed by 2 in. My buddy hit it. Everyone on the range was watching the outcome. Roger Fisher will attest, I think, that Blue Mtn. is somewhat competitive. I got 4 rifle orders before I LEFT. Luck for sure but you had to get close. Another top shooter in our club shot a 15/16th .45 x 42 in. I'm not saying that muzzleheavy guns are better. BUT BALANCE IS A PERSONAL MATTER. I like a rifle balanced on my left had with a slight drag on the muzzle.  Just me.

By the by, this guy sold this rifle, which he paid the exorbitant price of $2000 in 1983, for $4500 at Dixon's last year, after nearly 25 years of hard use.  34 deer taken. And one red squirrel in N.Y. Nothing left but the tail.

So much for "It's to pretty to take in the woods" It's just natural and honest age when half the makers are trying to duplicate it.

[Rich]

I've read that the proper balance point is at the ramrod entry pipe. That's what I do and it makes the rifle comforable for me to shoot.

[Dphariss]

ok,
  Glad to hear that, but where should a rifle balance for best performance?
Kirby

Schuetzen rifles are notoriously barrel heavy. Most offhand rifles are.
It is IMPOSSIBLE to balance a longrifle as a British Double Rifle would balance.
The rifle should balance in a way the allows it to be carried easily and shot accurately.
This would be impossible with a rifle that balances at the trigger.
Rifles, due to their usage, need to balance in a way the helps keep them stable. Shotguns need a different balance so they swing faster.
The "balance" of the typical modern hunting rifle is such that a good shot with a longrifle will often out shoot a good shot with a modern rifle in an offhand match. The modern rifle wobbles to the point it is very difficult to shoot well off hand.

Dan

[Lucky R A]

Balance is pretty much in the eye of the beholder or, in this case gun holder.   For a hunting rifle, I it to balance mid forearm right where my hand goes when I carry it.  I can then place my rear sight right in front of where my hand carries the gun.  There is nothing more onrey than a sight digging into you hand while you carry the gun.    The gun I use for match shooting carries a straight barrel and is slightly muzzle heavy.  I have hunted with the same gun, and in the field it seems that I am always working to keep the muzzle up out of the underbrush.  When I carry it straight down at my side. It balances at the entry thimble.   A swamped barrel will naturally balance further back than a straight barrel.   Balance as said before is a matter of personal preference for the use intended.  It is not a matter of right or wrong, and opinions vary greatly.

[David Price]

If you stand behind an off hand shooting line and notice where the shooters are holding there forward hand, you will see many different positions.  Some hold there hand way out front, others hold there hand on the trigger guard.  I have noticed that the ones that hold way out front usually have heavy barreled rifles.  When I shoot one of those front heavy barrels I also hold my hand much further forward than I normally wood, and this feels very unnatural to me.  I personally do not like front heavy rifles, in fact I don't like heavy rifles at all.  I  agree with B.Shipman and Lucky RA that where you hold your rifle  is a personal preference, but I think that the rifle that you are holding dictates as to where your left hand will be.  What Lucky RA said about placing the rear sight is very important, I don't place the sight on to the barrel until the rifle is completely assembled for that reason.

[mahtosapanumpa]

I am learning a lot here...
  thanks for all the responses. I will get this this project done and shoot it a bit before I decide if It needs re balancing.
thanks guys.
Kirby

[jerrywh]

The answer is , A rifle should balance wherever you want it to. The real question is this. What are you going to do to achieve that, Add weight to the stock , shorten or lighten the barrel.

[billd]

I was thinkng the same thing that Jerry just wrote.  How do you do it?

[Rich]

The way I do it is to estimate where the balance point will be and leave the lower forstock (the part with the ramrod hole drilled in it) a little long. After the excess wood is planned off, I find the balance point and make a final determination of the entry pipe location. I don't hold the rifle at the balance point when shooting. I prefer a rifle that's a little barrel heavy.

[Roger Fisher]

Where should a rifle balance?  My first build from a Lyman kit is very barrel heavy. An experienced shooter once showed me his rifle that balanced on the trigger.  It doesn't appear that I can add enough weight to the stock to make that happen. What do you think?

Kirby

Balance at the 'trigger' holy kats or some such!! No way Jose

Does this mean that I have to slug my stock butt with still more lead Sheesh, I'm running out of room!   My main offhand shooter is 39 1/2 inches long (don't ask) straight .45 cal (more like a .46 now) Muzzle heavy but I could handle it til they opened me up 9 yrs ago, after that session I shook like a hound dog cr______ razor blades trying to hold the ol gal to a horizontal position.  Pulled the plate and slugged her full of lead.  This moved the bal point back abt 1 1/2 inches and helped a lot!  Try it you might like it...!

[Long John]

As many have told you, balance is a matter of personal preference. 

For off-hand target shooting many of the better shooters prefer a rifle that is some what muzzle heavy.  They will claim that it "hangs" nice.  But for hunting that rifle will be slow to acquire the target and have a tendency to keep on going once it is on target.  I built a rifle for my brother that balanced mid-way between the trigger guard and the entry pipe.  It has a quick, lively feel to it and is on target in a flash.  But for serious target shooting he might be at a disadvantage with such a lively rifle. 

I am building a new hunting rifle (that I will shoot targets with to be sure) that is balanced where it is comfortable for me to support the rifle with my left hand when off-hand shooting.  I am postioning the rear sight forward of that location so it doesn't dig my hand while carrying.

I hope this helps.

Best Regards,

John Cholin

[Dphariss]

The answer is , A rifle should balance wherever you want it to. The real question is this. What are you going to do to achieve that, Add weight to the stock , shorten or lighten the barrel.

Exactly.

However...
I for one cannot shoot a light barreled gun worth @!*% offhand.
I had a Navy Arms import Martini "Miniature Club Rifle" 22 that after stocking it I had to roll lead sheeting a tape it in front of the forend. And it was pretty heavy for a 22.
Won a lot of 50 ft matches with it. Both paper silhouette and bullseye.
Long rifles can be lighter out front since the length dampens the swing.
The closer you hold the rifle to the lock/action the better the scores. If you know how and the rules allow it.
Again think Schuetzen rifle.
Dan