Author Topic: ignition lag problems  (Read 14865 times)

roundball

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Re: ignition lag problems
« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2013, 04:37:05 PM »
And to be honest, Flintlocks don't even have to be expensive.

For example, T/Cs redesigned Flintlocks and vent liners with Fuller flints and Goex are outstanding, and I never bought a brand new one...always a used beater for a low price, that after refinishing and converting to Flint I averaged having $400-$450 in them...never let me down when I'd finally get a nice 10 pointer or long-beard in my sights, and that includes hunting them in light rain on 3 different occasions.  If they were not 100% reliable I would not have trusted them for hunting.

I've since added more traditional style long guns with top quality locks, triggers, and barrels for retirement to have that experience before I check out, but have not killed a single dove, deer, squirrel, or long-beard any deader with them than I did for years with T/C Hawkens...they just look prettier and cost a lot more money.

Have now sold off every caplock I ever owned, and 98% of all modern center-fires as all I use are Flintlocks...totally reliable.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2013, 04:39:27 PM by roundball »

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: ignition lag problems
« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2013, 05:39:07 PM »
 I'm not sure I'd try to win a cap shooter over with a TC flinter. I shoot almost exclusively flint, and have had several newbies quit shooting flint, because the only flintlock they have had any experience with is a TC Hawken. Lame coil springs, and often questionable lock geometry, make them more work than they're worth. For the newbie, the locks are very hard to tune, compared to a good modern flintlock, with flat springs, good geometry.  Heck you can buy a good serviceable used flinter online for what a TC costs and not have to deal with all the industrial shortcuts in the TC .
 And as for Dogshirt, He will come around when the percussion caps dry up like the rimfire ammo.

                       Hungry Horse

roundball

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Re: ignition lag problems
« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2013, 05:56:02 PM »
Right...T/Cs old style Flint lock assemblies, old style vent liners, and sawed agate flints were not a reliable combination at all.

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: ignition lag problems
« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2013, 06:50:44 PM »
Ain't ever, after just one, going back to flint! What a MAJOR PITA! If I want to involve a rock in my hunting, I'll use a SLING. At least they fire!

My Great uncle was a NC gunmaker in the early 1800's until his death in 1871. He was also loved to bear hunt. He was never known to have made pistols but he made himself a bear pistol to hunt with. Most of his rifles were caliber 40-45 but he made the pistol a 54 caliber I assume to be better for bear. The barrel is signed and dated 1846 and he built it with a Golcher flintlock. Shows his faith in the flintlock.

Me, I have shot and built both and I will take a well tuned flintlock 2 to 1 over a percussion!
Dennis
"I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend" - Thomas Jefferson

Offline Don Steele

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Re: ignition lag problems
« Reply #29 on: June 15, 2013, 07:53:29 PM »
My  question is: What are the differences between the "old" T/C lock geometry, and the new improved version.
Then...how do I convert my old one...??
I recently inherited an older (late 1970's vintage) T/C flint Hawken. Replaced the broken frizzen with one from Dixie and she sparks good. The barrel has the "slotted " vent liner. I recently stumbled upon the revised liner that installs with an allen wrench and is "coned" inside and out.
Haven't taken the rifle to the range yet...looking for comments, advice...whatever you guys with T/C flint experience can offer.
Thanks.
Look at the world with a smilin' eye and laugh at the devil as his train rolls by...(Alison Krauss)

roundball

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Re: ignition lag problems
« Reply #30 on: June 15, 2013, 10:17:03 PM »
Over the years, like most companies, T/C has made improvements to just about every component that goes into the making of their lock assemblies.  As a result a true 1970's vintage lock has had improvements on many parts like tumblers, springs, hammers, frizzens, the geometry, etc.
For the Flintlock ignition improvements in general, T/C's late '90s redesigned Flint lock includes a hammer that is both taller and has a different angle of attack...and a different Frizzen.
Those improvements along with the improved vent liner completely rejuvenated T/C's Flintlock reliability since then.

Where flints used to have short flint life and often shatter because of the old style hammer's too square / straight on delivery into the frizzen...as well as quickly eating a horizontal groove across the frizzen face...they no longer shatter and with the new style lock, it's not uncommon to shoot a couple of 50 shot range sessions on the same flint, where previously the flint life often averaged 20-25 shots in old style locks.

OLD STYLE T/C FLINT LOCK ASSEMBLY

Note severe "S" shape to hammer, and the "notch" in the outside edge of the hammer at about 12 o'clock right above the hammer mounting screw.
Also note that the old style hammer is quite short with the bottom jaw just barely clearing the fence...and the frizzen is case colored.



NEW STYLE T/C FLINT LOCK ASSEMBLY

Note the much more gentle "S" curve shape (and no notch), itís much taller with the lower jaw clearing much higher above the fence, the frizzen is solid jet black color.
3/4" wide x 7/8" long Tom Fuller black English flints worked best for me on these medium sized locks of several I tried, averaging 60-80 shots rarely knapping, and more if they're knapped as they wear.


« Last Edit: June 15, 2013, 10:21:16 PM by roundball »

Offline Don Steele

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Re: ignition lag problems
« Reply #31 on: June 16, 2013, 01:31:12 AM »
Thank you for the detailed tutorial on T/C locks. When I got this rifle, the frizzen was broken off. It has been replaced by a(new) black one. Is it possible to simply replace the old style hammer with one of the new design and achieve the kind of improvements you mention ??
 
Look at the world with a smilin' eye and laugh at the devil as his train rolls by...(Alison Krauss)

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: ignition lag problems
« Reply #32 on: June 16, 2013, 02:16:43 AM »
Such elegant locks,especially the wave crest pan version.I have seen parts for these
listed somewhere but don't recall who had them. Maybe TRS.
To use the L&R Manton,the inset of the breech wouldn't be any deeper than the thickness of the lock plate
so only about 1/4" would be taken from the width across the breech of a double barrel.
At the last CLA Show in Lexington,I saw a beautiful double,a 20 garuge I thing,modern made an I was
 told the locks were mine but I don't remember if there was ant inset of the locks or not. It sure was an elegant
feather light gun.

Bob Roller

roundball

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Re: ignition lag problems
« Reply #33 on: June 16, 2013, 04:09:55 AM »
Thank you for the detailed tutorial on T/C locks. When I got this rifle, the frizzen was broken off. It has been replaced by a(new) black one. Is it possible to simply replace the old style hammer with one of the new design and achieve the kind of improvements you mention ??
 
I wouldn't say just adding a new style hammer to a lock that old will match the performance of a complete new style lock assembly from the late 90's redesign but it should add some improvement.
NOTE:  If you get a new style hammer, you must also get the matching new style top jaw and jaw screw...the old jaw and screw do not fit the new hammer frame.

If the internals of that 70's vintage lock are still original, most of the internals have also been upgraded over the decades, all geared towards performance improvements.  So if you're planning to get that old of a vintage lock working at 100% reliability like today's current production locks so you can start using it regularly, you might as well just replace the whole lock assembly.
Or at least get the current production items like the new style tumbler, sear, and matching new style bridle plate and screws, etc.

William Worth

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Re: ignition lag problems
« Reply #34 on: June 17, 2013, 03:13:14 AM »
Where can one get the replacement T/C locks?  It is my understanding that T/C no longer sells them.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2013, 03:25:36 PM by William Worth »

roundball

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Re: ignition lag problems
« Reply #35 on: June 17, 2013, 03:35:11 AM »
RMCSports used to have parts for them...maybe they also have a complete lock assembly...you could give them a call...as well as other BP supply places.

Here's RMC:  http://www.rmcsports.com/catalog.htm
« Last Edit: June 17, 2013, 03:36:42 AM by roundball »

Offline SCLoyalist

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Re: ignition lag problems
« Reply #36 on: June 17, 2013, 04:14:24 AM »
L&R's RPL line includes a TC flint replacement.

ramrod

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Re: ignition lag problems
« Reply #37 on: June 17, 2013, 06:54:43 AM »
just to add my lock is a 1977 and now performs at about 95% as good as my siler. only change was my installing new style hammer.

rfd

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Re: ignition lag problems
« Reply #38 on: June 20, 2013, 03:42:24 PM »
good to see that the op's problem got solved, but i wonder what was the real difference 'tween the old (not working well) and new (working well) touch hole liners?

yes - there's more understanding, setup and maintenance required with rock locks, but once it's all understood and cared for, i still think they're the overall better ignition system than caps.  to each their own, it's all good.


ironwolf

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Re: ignition lag problems
« Reply #39 on: June 20, 2013, 08:11:20 PM »
  My experience as a range officer would tend to back up what RFD just posted.  Lot of time spent unclogging those little gas paths. 

   KW

Offline JCKelly

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Re: ignition lag problems
« Reply #40 on: June 30, 2013, 04:38:09 AM »
Flintlocks put the FIRE back in fire-arm.