L&R Bedford lock question-resolution of problem

[Whaleman]

I am into my first build. It is a Bedford from Pectonica. Spending most of my time working my way out of a mistake but am moving ahead. When I finally got the lock inlet and the lock bolts drilled and threaded I noticed the tumbler was somewhat loose. I sent the lock back to L&R and they very quickly sent back with a new tumbler and bridal. It is now fit very tight. My question is this. While laying out my nipple on the drum,  which is not drilled for it yet, I noticed that on half cock the hammer will still rest on the nipple. this seems dangerous. Is it common to have to drill the hammer a little deeper to have clearance for the cap on the nipple at half cock? The drum is correctly positioned on the lock drum inlet. Thanks Dan

[t.caster]

That's just not right! Half cock should be more than a 1/4" back off the nipple and I would prefer more than that even so you can get a cap on or off. Something is wrong with the sear and tumbler engagement. How far back is it at full cock? The internal parts for that lock are the same as the small Manton lock. You might have the wrong tumbler for that lock! Call L&R again and tell them what's happening!

[Whaleman]

Thank you. I wondered if they could have used the wrong tumbler. I will take some pictures and email to them. Thanks again.

[T*O*F]

Since this is your first build, I think you are counting yer chickens before they hatch. 
Even with kits, modifications are required.  Wait until your nipple is installed.  Nipples come in various lengths and yours might be one of the longer ones.  Also, bending of the hammer is usually required for final fitting.  Cross bridges when you come to them.  You may not have yet acquired the experience to figure things out yet, and asking questions here will often yield a variety of speculations, not all of which will solve your problem.

[Whaleman]

I know I have a lot to learn. I appreciate all the advice and help. I went to my TOW catalog as it has a picture of the back of the lock. My tumbler looks different. Help me, but it appears to me the lock in the picture is on half cock. This is where my hammer is on full cock. Thank You Dan

[E.vonAschwege]

Dan,
  Can you take a photo of your lock when resting, on half cock, and on full cock, as well as how it currently mates up to the drum?  While your hammer should be well above the nipple at half cock, there are numerous other things that could be throwing off your build, and photos are a lot easier to tell what's going on.  Thanks,
-Eric

[Long Ears]

Probably isn't possible but.... The cock or hammer is installed on the correct flat on the square tumbler shaft isn't it? Bob

[Whaleman]

I want to thank everyone for the replies. I can post some pictures later when my wife finds her little cable to get the pictures off the camera. I decided to just send the lock back to L&R. Something is wrong. I don't know if it is the wrong tumbler or if the correct tumbler was mismachined. I will update when I get it back. Dan

[Bill of the 45th]

It's a Pecatonica precarve you say?  Was the lock mortice pre-inlet also.  If so the mortice may not be exactly right.  I have never had one just right.  Always needed to lower, or move back the barrel.  The last three or four I just ordered with only barrel, and ramrod channel cut, and did my own lock mortice.  I think you have a geometry issue, and not a lock problem.  If you haven't installed the drum, you have room to move the barrel.  That's my thought, but without pic's it's only a guess.  Good luck,  The most fun of a build is fixing your aw shucks.

Bill

[Bear62]

I ran into this same issue building my Bedford. I ended up doing some alterations to the hammer, even after that the hammer doesn't come way back when on half cock but far enough to be able to cap the nipple. At full cock the lock looks like most do at half cock but it will set a cap off. I have always thought it was a screwy tumbler, almost like it was cast wrong...  Maybe there was something wrong in the hammer square like it wasn't on the right angle? I considered filling the hole and re-drilling it and filing new flats in a different position to change the geometry of the hammer. I never have been quite happy with it...

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

The geometry of some locks does not lend itself to a rifle with a drum and nipple.  The cocking notches are cut so that the hammer throw is very short.  Select a lock that has a long hammer throw.

[ken]

I have used that lock on a drum and nipple set up. and yes the hammer just clears the nipple. I have to bring it to full to cap the rifle then let it down to halve . Not to fond of that but never had any issues Just the nature of the lock.

[Whaleman]

Photo of the lock at half cock. Compare to the photo of this lock at half cock in the Track cataloge. Dan

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

If I were going to build a Bedford Co. rifle in percussion, that is not the lock I would use.  Chambers' gunmaker's lock set allows you to cut the pate to that classic Bedford shape, and yet have internals that give lots of clearance of the hammer/nipple at half cock.  You can also replace the hammer for a more traditional Bedford style.

[T*O*F]

Looking closely at your picture, the stop shoulder on the hammer is parallel with the bolster.  This is the rest position for this lock.  You need to index the hammer back one position on the tumbler axle.  I have basically the same lock in flint and when at half cock, the cock is almost parallel to the sear spring screw.  Looks to me like you assembled the lock internals and then put the hammer on whatever position was convenient.  The mainspring goes on last, not the hammer.

[Bob Roller]

The position of that mainspring is all out of place.
The upper limb should be at least 3/8"longer.

Bob Roller

[Acer Saccharum]

Dave, that would be 90 deg change in position. Wow, that would be a lot. I guess try it, see how it looks to you. Make sure the hammer can come down far enough to contact the nipple.

if that fails, silver braze a plug in the hammer, and recut the square hole in the proper position.

[okawbow]

Here is the Bedford lock I was using in my rifle until I converted to flint. It fit and worked fine.


P7090368 by okawbow, on Flickr

[Acer Saccharum]

to my eye, it looks like a different tumbler in each lock.




P7090368 by okawbow, on Flickr

[okawbow]

I just noticed the OP's lock was at half cock. Here is mine at half cock.


P7090370 by okawbow, on Flickr

[E.vonAschwege]

Definitely some different tumblers in those locks - the one with the forged mainspring is a newer one if I'm not mistaken.  Also different halfcock positions between Okawbow's latest pic and Whaleman's lock.  I think rotating the hammer back 90* would be too far and wouldn't hit the nipple at the down position... 45* would be closer to right.   You shouldn't have to do that with a purchased lock; tuning yes, but not significant alterations like that. 
-Eric

[Bob Roller]

This whole lock needs to be retooled but the low volume of sales on this
style of lock would never cover the cost and certainly no profit for L&R.

Bob Roller

[Whaleman]

Thanks everyone for your comments. Yes, I believe the tumbler is different than the one that was in before I sent it in to L&R the first time. The lock in my picture was as assembled by the factory repairman. was hoping to have it back before I leave today to fish in Canada for the next week. I will update when I get back as it should be back by then. Dan

[Whaleman]

When I got home the lock was back from L&R. I had a full page handwritten letter from Bill Cox the President of L&R. He apologized for the mixup. The lock is perfect. Please compare the picture at half cock with my photo from before. I give L&R complete credit for standing behind the lock and the great service. Thanks Everyone!!!

[Pete G.]

Good to see a proper resolution. Things happen