Side Plate and Lock Panels Confession

[George F.]

I learned something rather important  the other day. I am usually using  "C" weight swamped barrels, but on this rifle I'm using an " A" weight swamped barrel. I cut my own side plates out of 1/8" plate brass. After I had the lock inletted, and the wrist shaped, I inletted the side plate . It looked fine. My next step was to shape the lock panels, so I worked on the lock side first, then using tracing paper I transfered the lock side to the side plate side. After relocating the forward trigger guard pin hole (after I had already drilled it 2 months ago because the hole was at the edge of the lock panel), I laid the transfer paper on the side plate lock panel and  low and behold it barely clears the bottom edge of the side plate. I'm also concerned about how the tail looks as it points to the center of the wrist.  I believe this oversight is a result of a few things. One I guess is my ego, lack of extensive building experience, using a barrel that is of a different breech dimension and last of course not checking things out FULLY before mounting them. I wanted this to be one of my better works. Now I'll go back and fill in the bottom of the inlett with some scrap wood and arch the bottom of the side plate, and basically reshape it some.  For now on I WILL NOT MAKE THIS MISTAKE AGAIN!!! I had in the past only be concerned about the forward lock bolt and the tail, now I know better.....GEO>

[Kentucky Jeff]

George...we all learn from our mistakes.  Sometimes its more painful than others.

Once I have the lock panel around the lock shaped like I want I make a paper template by doing a rubbing with a pencil to get a general outline and I mark the location of the lock bolts etc.   The I cut this paper out and use it as a template to trace the panel shape on the plate side.   Sometimes you don't have the luxury of shaping your own lock plate like if you are using one of those fancy cast english scroll plates.   But generally if I'm making a traditional longrifle I don't cut and inlet my lock plate until I have my lock panels established and shaped.   Then its real easy to design and custom cut a lock plate that fits that space and looks correct for the gun. 

Not like I've made a bunch of guns either...but this is how I proceed. 

[jerrywh]

I always transfer the lock panel to the left side before I inlet the side plate.

[Tom Currie]

I'll add to what Jerry said in that given the transferred lock panel and the 2 lock bolt holes , I then design the lock plate so that it fits the lock holes and fills the lock panel appropriately making sure the tail of the lock plate looks centered at the end of the lock panel.

[t.caster]

I concur with Tom & Jerry!
You will learn new lessons with every project.

[Jim Kibler]

One other thing to keep in mind is that there is no reason the side plate and lock panels have to match perfectly.  If they match while looking at the gun from above or below I find it good enough.  I'll oftentimes shape the sideplate panel slightly different than the lock side.  Look at some originals and you will see that this was purposefully done at times.  The important thing is that each side looks good individually. 

[Mike Brooks]

I always transfer the lock panel to the left side before I inlet the side plate.

Me too.

[Lucky R A]

The only people that make their lock panels and he side plate panels exactly the same are the judges at Dixons. :>}

[Acer Saccharum]

I have not seen many old guns where the two panels are the same. They are shaped to what looks best on each side, in my 'umble opinion.

I think the exact panel matching thing is a new age thing, also sharp edges to the panels and sandpaper and aniline dies and polyester stock finishes and a host of other things that have come be accepted as 'how it was done'.

Well, maybe my opinion aint so 'umble after all, but it IS my opinion, I got that part right, eh.

We just got 8" of newfallen snow, and I am done shoveling for the moment. I will now make a few things for some upcoming shows,  then off to the old railroad right of way for a ski. I wish I had a fowling piece to sling over my shoulder to pop a rabbit or two. Within the next gun or two.

[Dphariss]

I generally use hardware store screws and (maybe) washers till I get things pretty well shaped.
If you think you are alone in this "problem" then or now look at pages 73, 74, 77 and 143 in Whiskers "Gunsmiths of Lancaster County PA". I found this in 30 seconds of looking in the closest book to the computer. These guys apprenticed and were TRAINED in stock making by masters in the trade and they STILL had this "problem".
If Beck and Beyer and others had to "work around" this you can too without too much angst.

As someone else pointed out Kentuckys were not identical on both sides. If it LOOKS close its good enough.
I know its an irritant but then again you won't do this again. For you its a win-win. The rifle is going to look good in the end, just like the Becks & other originals  and you learned a lesson.

Dan

[jerrywh]

My side plate panels are always exactly the same from all angles.  I'm not a judge at Dixons.
 True there are some originals that don't match. On work guns it isn't so important.  The so called old masters made all the same mistakes that we have. Two wrongs don't make a right. If they match from the top and bottom it will be hard to discern the difference. If you transfer the pattern before inlaying the side plate it will be easy to make them the same. Most side plates are to thick in my opinion. I don't see the need for them to be any thicker than 1/16"  Most of the English and European ones are very thin. Especially the silver ones. 

[Dphariss]

My side plate panels are always exactly the same from all angles.  I'm not a judge at Dixons.
 True there are some originals that don't match. On work guns it isn't so important.  The so called old masters made all the same mistakes that we have. Two wrongs don't make a right. If they match from the top and bottom it will be hard to discern the difference. If you transfer the pattern before inlaying the side plate it will be easy to make them the same. Most side plates are to thick in my opinion. I don't see the need for them to be any thicker than 1/16"  Most of the English and European ones are very thin. Especially the silver ones. 

I try to make mine identical too but as they say my mileage varies. If very far off the contours of the stock will be off as well.
I also agree that recreating mistakes is a mistake.
Copying ugly original rifles is a mistake as well.
If some must copy a Beck or a Hawken or what ever copy a GOOD looking one not some variant that may have been stocked by an apprentice or even restocked by someone with a poor eye for lines.
Speaking of the Hawkens fro example, there were periods when they could not make guns fast enough. Makes one wonder if some of the originals we see did not come from such a situation.
Dan

[Jim Kibler]

My side plate panels are always exactly the same from all angles.  I'm not a judge at Dixons.
 True there are some originals that don't match. On work guns it isn't so important.  The so called old masters made all the same mistakes that we have. Two wrongs don't make a right. If they match from the top and bottom it will be hard to discern the difference. If you transfer the pattern before inlaying the side plate it will be easy to make them the same. Most side plates are to thick in my opinion. I don't see the need for them to be any thicker than 1/16"  Most of the English and European ones are very thin. Especially the silver ones. 

I'm pretty sure we've had this debate before.  I don't think there is any doubt that at times the sideplate and lockplate panels were intentionally made different.  Just remember, the lock is a different shape than the side plate.  What looks best for one may not look best for the other.  It's not uncommon to see the top edge of the sideplate panel from the breech towards the butplate to be straighter than that on the lock side.  I think this can add to the flow of the architecture in this area.  One other thing to keep in mind is that if your forward lock bolt doesn't lie in the center of the lockplate nose, the forward area of the sideplate is not going to fit well if the sideplate panel is made identical to the lock panel.  It's a much better idea to shape the sideplate panel so it looks good in this region.  Don't worry if it doesn't match the lock side.   I don't think there is any tendency when viewing a firearm to evaluate it based on the symmetry of the lock an side panels.  As said before, make them match when viewing the stock from above and below and then make each side look best individually and leave it at that.  Symmetry means nothing in this case since you can't see both sides at once. 

[Roger Fisher]

The only people that make their lock panels and he side plate panels exactly the same are the judges at Dixons. :>}

Ha Ha!