Author Topic: I believe patchboxes were designed for patches. (Read 16838 times)

Jerry V Lape · « **Reply #25 on:** May 22, 2013, 07:54:47 PM »

I won't pretend to know what they may have been intended to contain. But I suspect they would not have contained anything non expendable as few of the locking systems are secure enough to protect important items like tools. If I were keeping tools in them I would want some internal fasteners to keep them in place and probably a positive lock to prevent inadvertent opening. So my assumption is they were probably used for lube, patches or tow. There seems little evidence they were used for much of anything. Could they have actually been nothing more than a decorative marketing item?

Bob Roller · « **Reply #26 on:** May 23, 2013, 01:06:41 AM »

Karl,Here are a few German words applying to muzzle loaders;
Achtkantlauf=octagon barrel
Zierbugel,Messing oder Eisen=trigger guard from brass or iron
Perlkorn=front sight
Diopter=peepsight
Visier=barrel mounted rear sight
Kleinbohr=small bore
Groosbohr=large bore
Steinschloss=flintlock
Perkussionschloss=caplock
Schaftkappe=buttplate
Hakenschaftkappe=crescent or possibly Schuetzen butt plate
Hauptfeder=mainspring
Kette=mainspring link
Abzugstange=sear
Abzugstagefeder=searspring
Schraube=screw
Schraubendreher=screw driver
Putzstock=loading or cleaning rod
Scheibenbuchse=target rifle
Kugel=bullet
Kugelform=bullet mould
Messing pflaster schactel.brass patchbox (maybe)
Eisen pflaster schactel iron patch box (maybe)
pflaster=patch
Scwartzpulver=black powder
Ersatzpulver=substitute black powder--Pyrodex etc
Falschmunde=false muzzle
Halbschaft=half stock
Vollschaft=fullstock
Vorderlader= muzzle loader

My brain just went numb so I hope this helps.

Bob Roller

Bill Paton · « **Reply #27 on:** May 23, 2013, 01:19:58 AM »

Danke. Das is gut. I will print this and keep with the German gun books I have trouble reading. Thanks again. Bill Paton

Joe Schell · « **Reply #28 on:** May 23, 2013, 01:35:45 AM »

Most boxes are found on rifles not fowlers, so if they were just storage containers for flints & tow why arnt more boxes found on fowling peices ?

Bob Roller · « **Reply #29 on:** May 23, 2013, 01:56:44 PM »

Bill,
Here are a few more German terms for ML's
Schwanzschraube=breech plug
Hakenschwanzschraube=hooked breech
Pistons=nipples for caplock guns
Piston Schlussel=nipple wrench

Bob Roller

Dphariss · « **Reply #30 on:** May 23, 2013, 04:20:38 PM »

Quote from: Joe Schell on May 23, 2013, 01:35:45 AM

Most boxes are found on rifles not fowlers, so if they were just storage containers for flints & tow why arnt more boxes found on fowling peices ?

They were for what ever the owner wanted to use them for.
Here is one for you, why do many percussion rifle have CAP boxes rather than patch boxes?
Near impossible to use as a cap box, ever try to get a cap out of one?. Far too easy to get the caps wet.
So I wonder what they were called back in the day...

Dan

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #31 on:** May 23, 2013, 09:58:27 PM »

...how about nipple/tube box. A handy place for a spare nipple.

hanshi · « **Reply #32 on:** May 23, 2013, 10:32:44 PM »

Quote from: D. Taylor Sapergia on May 23, 2013, 09:58:27 PM

...how about nipple/tube box. A handy place for a spare nipple.

Yeah, I've actually used them for that.

Chris Treichel · « **Reply #33 on:** May 23, 2013, 10:48:07 PM »

They did write this stuff down...

The Improved American Rifle" 1848 John Ratcliffe Chapman pg 41 speaking to desired components of a rifle:
"It is furnished with a patch box of elegant shape, and a small box for the insertion of a wiper end, which screws into the ramrod, to be used in case of emergency."
http://books.google.com/books?id=S4gAYMN9RBEC&printsec=frontcover&dq=american+rifle&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tW-eUZiBOfb94AOY_4CABg#v=onepage&q=american%20rifle&f=false

Chris Treichel · « **Reply #34 on:** May 28, 2013, 10:17:59 PM »

"When Lovell designated the butt box, he apparently intended it for greased patches and a piece of rag for wiping the barrel. In January 1839, however, Maj. Boileau submitted a design for a large rectangular cavity with a turn catch or button to hold the implements, and a smaller round one for the patches or grease. Although Lovell objected, this large trap, six inches long was adopted. The butt box involved two compartments, one to hold loose patches and the other set up to secure a three armed combination tool." referring to the Two Band Brunswick Rifle development.

Karl Kunkel · « **Reply #35 on:** May 30, 2013, 04:19:07 AM »

This thread jogged my memory. On the old board I think I recall a picture of a jaeger with a sliding wood box. The box was shallow and had a row of round excavations in the floor of the box which held pre-patched round balls. The patches were sewn around the balls. The closed lid held the balls in place. I can't recall if this was an original or contemporary piece.

1911tex · « **Reply #36 on:** June 28, 2013, 05:56:55 AM »

I'll raise my hand.......remember the 6-shot peacemaker; they kept only 5 rounds plus a roll of $ bills in case of a funeral in the 6th hole? Maybe the "box" is for ........................., just in case !

Pete G. · « **Reply #37 on:** June 28, 2013, 02:37:17 PM »

Quote from: Don Getz on May 21, 2013, 10:32:42 PM

Over the years I made a lot of guns with patch boxes, and finally came to this conclusion......"they are put there for other
people to open". If you finished a gun with a patch box and you let someone look at it, one of the things he will do is open
the patchbox..........Don

I've noticed that myself. Can't help but wonder if that's the reason behind some of the hidden release mechanisms

hanshi · « **Reply #38 on:** June 28, 2013, 07:36:03 PM »

......to make it harder for them to get to those Snickers bars.

Canute Rex · « **Reply #39 on:** June 28, 2013, 08:51:26 PM »

In reply to Dan's thought about "why a cap box if it doesn't really work?" There's always the "department of brilliant ideas", plus marketing. The logic goes something like this:

Rifles have brass boxes inlet into the side of the buttstock - people are used to that.
This is a new style percussion rifle. It fires with caps!
Hey, I'll make the traditional brass box small and round like a cap tin. Nothing says "new and improved extra-cool caplock" like a little round cap tin.
It will be really convenient for shooters to have those little buggers stored just inches away from the nipple, right in the rifle, right?

"Brilliant" idea, but it ended up being part of the branding.

Personally speaking, I have found that a cap box is a double opportunity: breaking a fingernail trying to open it and then launching my supply of caps into the air when it finally releases.

Kopfjaeger · « **Reply #40 on:** June 29, 2013, 07:04:25 AM »

I put a tow worm, ball puller, tow, jag, and a couple cleaning patches in my patch box.

I guess it wouldn't sound to cool being called a cleaning box.

Pete G. · « **Reply #41 on:** July 04, 2013, 01:34:35 AM »

Quote from: D. Taylor Sapergia on May 23, 2013, 09:58:27 PM

...how about nipple/tube box. A handy place for a spare nipple.

Patchbox just sounds better than nipplebox; especially in mixed company.

C. Cash · « **Reply #42 on:** July 04, 2013, 06:24:56 AM »

Thats pretty funny Pete. Almost 45 years old, and still can't help but crack up a little at the "N" word, or keep a straight face.

. Good thing I like flintlocks.

sonny · « **Reply #43 on:** July 05, 2013, 03:52:56 PM »

I think that the patchbox was used for patches greased an stored for action. I also think like a trunk on a car,anything that would fit was stored inside, up to an including tools. I am sure that things like tools would rattle but by the time you could hear the rattle you usually won't have to worry about it,if those chose.....sonny

smylee grouch · « **Reply #44 on:** July 05, 2013, 04:07:21 PM »

Patchboxes were put on rifles for some place to hide the prayer hole.

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Author Topic: I believe patchboxes were designed for patches. (Read 16838 times)

1911tex

C. Cash