light Spot on stock...need advice !

[oldarcher]

I have just applied Laurel Mountain stain to a raw very Hard maple Hawken 1/2 stock. I am using a combination of maple and walnut. I have a bright spot on the stock in a very noticeable area. It does not seem to accept the stain and the stain is uneven and really spotted looking. I have experienced uneven stain application issues before but I have always been able to steel wool/reapply stain enough to blend the finish nicely...but not this time...any suggestions???   Thanks for your help!

[tallbear]

Archer
Is it a hard spot in the grain or is it possible that your wood was contaminated with oil.I only use Nitrate of iron stain but I always thoroughly clean my stock with a product called Cleanwood before applying stain.This eliminates the possibility of uneven staining due to oil contamination which can even be caused by sweaty hands.

Mitch

[oldarcher]

Thank you for your help Tallbear, the stock is oil free and was cleaned and whiskered...the maple is very very hard, I think that this is an especially hard area as it simply will not accept even color. Actually this was the hardest maple I have ever worked with, I had to use my mill with 4 flute cutters to inlet some of the parts. I am going to continue to stain and see if I can even it out....I was looking for shortcuts.

[flehto]

A few LRs back I had a sugar maple stock that had a few "hard spots" which wouldn't chisel.....had to use a sharp file. Talked to the wood supplier and he called it "oyster shell" . Finally after many repeat stainings of the hard spots using Dangler stains, a homogenous color throughout the stock was achieved. These hard spots were if anything, more white before staining than the surrounding areas......Fred

[smylee grouch]

I have had the same problem befor too and didnt completley get the light spot stained enough so would be interested in where I could get some of the solution (cleanwood) talked about.

[oldarcher]

Flehto, I believe that I am experiencing the same type of problem that you described. The cut of the wood allowed the flat of the grain to be exposed in this area. It is extremely hard and simply will not take stain...I am still working on it, steel wool, stain, then steel wool again, stain...and so on. Thanks for your insight.

[T*O*F]

Alcohol and water based stains depend on being absorbed into the wood.  The grain is too tight to accept the stain.  Therefore, you must use a stain that chemically reacts with the cellulose in the wood.

[Lucky R A]

    There is one way you can overcome this problem and that is to stain your stock as you already have and then give the stock a seal coat of shellac or thinned finish.  After the seal coat has thoroughly dried go over the light area with Trans Tint dye of the appropriate color for your stock you can feather the dye on lightly with steel wool until you have blended the light spot into the surrounding color.  Let dye dry and then finish over it.  The purpose of the seal coat is to allow you to manage the surface application of color w/o migration into other areas...This same technique is used to layer on colors in antiquing finishes.

Ron

[kutter]

It's very touchy to do,,but you can sometimes lightly scorch the hard white grain area in wood  to color it a brown/dark brown/black color.
Then you have to gently blend that into the surrounding stained wood around it.
The scorched wood will at times take a bit of stain afterwards so you can play with the color that way too.
try both alcohol and oil based stain after the treatment. Sometimes it opens the wood just enough to allow some color pigment from oil stain to enter and get you the results you need.

If it's a particularly large area, you can break it up with fake grain streaks running through it if the surrounding wood is similar.

When you're satisfied, seal it over with a thin but tough clear coat coating to preserve what you've created.
Carefully cutting down any gloss on that coating if necessary,,
then apply a suitable finish over everything.


A torch is the first thing most think of to use and it's probably the least desirable to use on touch-ups.
You just can't control it for small areas even with a tiny tip like a #0

A simple red hot piece of steel works. A small diameter rod,,1/8"d or similar held close but not touching the surface will singe it and turn colors. You don't want it to char it!
Use the end of it held close enough to the wood to produce the burn colors to the wood w/o actually touching the wood. The small end of the rod will control where you 'burn' the wood, so it's like drawing with it.
Use a large red hot piece and you'll burn surrounding wood as well.

It can take a bit of time and patience but that's OK. Better to get nice results slowly than a big burning area before you realize whats happening.

On maple, also try a coating of linseed oil on the wood before you singe it. 
That in itself will generally yield an even light brown color.


Worth a try,,,practice on some scrap first so you get the feel of it.
You want to color the surface,,not char it.

[oldarcher]

Hi Kutter,
That sounds like a good idea, I use a heat gun on ramrods to stripe them. I could use foil to add feature and use the gun to add heat/color.....or I could just learn to love the light spot, kind of like a beauty mark on a beautiful girl!
TW

[Hungry Horse]

 This is why most spirit stains on maple is temporary at best. Most old timers used an acid stain of some sort. some maple is so hard that stain that relies on penetration, without chemical reaction, are useless. Sometimes even acid stains require some manipulating to get the desired results.

                     Hungry Horse 

[Lucky R A]

      Hungry Horse, with all due respect, I kind of wonder what you consider temporary in relationship to spirit stains?  I am a bit older than you are and have used spirit stains with good results for nearly 40 years.  Spirit stains allow me to achieve the exact colors that I am seeking w/o a lot of fuss, muss and bother---and after 40 years they still look good.

[bob in the woods]

Not all stains [ spirit ] are the same. I have had some that faded with exposure to sunlight , enough to be undesirable.  Others seem OK after 10 to 15 years ??   Not sure why.   I now use the vinegar /iron stain I learned of here, and am very happy with the results.

[Hungry Horse]

Lucky RA;

  You really are LUCKY. I have not found any spirit stain that doesn't either fade, or show excessive wear, when used on hard maple. My guns are heavily used, and only retain their original color if I use Aquafortis or vinegar stains.

                  Hungry Horse

[Hungry Horse]

Maybe instead of getting everybodies panties in a twist, somebody might want to recommend some of these superior spirit stains. I didn't say they don't exist. I just said I hadn't found one yet. It doesn't take many stripping, and refinishing, projects, to sour me on a product, or process.

                    Hungry Horse

[bgf]

I am not an authority, but one observation might help some in this case.  I have found that a "base" of vinegar and iron stain (and you can even combine it with a dewhiskering step or two) takes the intensity of the LM stains up several notches.  This was at first an accidental observation, as I tried many times to get a color I liked from just the vinegar and iron, but all I ever got was some shade of gray (on the bright side, it doesn't take more than a couple of days to brew to that point).  Well, I switched to LM stains and found they were always too light (almost "pastel" to my eye).  I got the bright idea of applying over a test swatch that had been stained with vinegar and iron -- and "viola" -- just the color I was hoping for.  It doesn't actually seem to matter whether the vinegar and iron is on top or the first coat, except that the vinegar will raise the grain, so best to start with that.  I have a picture of test piece somewhere with LMF stains by themselves and then over vinegar and iron, and will post if I can find it.  The darkness of the gray can be controlled by the strength of the vinegar and iron mixture.

Anyway, you might consider blending in the hard spot with some vinegar and iron.  Also Lucky's suggestion of a toner in the finish is excellent also, and can be combined with other approaches.  I start with vinegar and iron, then add a random mix of LMF stains (based on testing), then finish with a tinted finish coat.  I know the stories about fading with LMF, but the rifles I've done with it are used on a more or less weekly basis and just as dark as they started after two or three years of that use for sure...so if they are fading it is slow.  Perhaps some form of UV inhibitor (e.g. in the form of spar varnish mixed into finish) helps.

PS.  Here is lmf (maple, maple+honey maple, honey maple) on maple by itself:


Here are the same stains with addition of basecoat of vinegar and iron:


Don't weight the striping/pattern too much, as I think they are different sides of test piece, but the darkening effect of the vinegar and iron on the LMF is consistent.

[bob in the woods]

One of the dyes that I tried some years ago, with somewhat mixed results, was really a leather dye/stain.
This particular stain was not that resistant to fading from sunlight.  I have had luck with some of the stains purposely made for wood, purchased from a  guitar supply dealer. Much better ,predictable results.  It would be worth experimenting were I not that satisfied with the traditional stains.  I even tried chewing tobacco at one point. It all depends on what you are after. One gun stock was stained by useing a dark coloured bees wax, and heating the stock until it absorbed the wax. A light buffing and it was done.  Whatever works for you is OK by me.
Just sharing my limited experience.

[Hungry Horse]

 I tried a myriad of spirit based leather dyes, and wood stains, and found most worthless. All seem to fade to some degree. The pick of the litter was Lincoln's shoe dye, which seems to have more dye material in it than Feibing's which had very little. Lincoln's has the interesting ability to be washed out, or blended with water after application, even though it is  spirit stain. This makes it easier to blend any overlaps or thin spots. It does sun fade a little, but not at all like Feibing's which I actually had fade while it was in the shop near a window, Lincoln's will wear off of hard maple, with handling. What I use it for more than anything is aging rawhide wraps on war clubs, and rifle stocks. I apply it with a brush, and while it is wet rub it with a wet rag ( not damp, wet) you will be shocked when it is dry, it looks like its been there a hundred years.
 I have had great result with Aquafortis, and I do use the Lincoln's light brown dye just before I apply the finish to give it more depth.
 The vinegar stains are a new experience for me, and so far they have been very controllable, and predictable, something Aquafortis isn't.

                    Hungry Horse
 

[Mark Elliott]

If the light spot is in an area that wouldn't get much wear and you plan to age the gun, then just leave a little extra black paint/glaze over that area.    I age my gun stocks by mixing lamp black oil paint with some of my standard oil based varnish that I make, possibly thinned with a little turpentine.    It makes what would technically be called a glaze.  I then wipe it on the entire gun so that it is mostly black.   Once the glaze has completely dried (you must use a drier in your glaze somewhere) you polish the black off in the normal wear areas using steel wool or a ScotchBrite type pad.   I have been known to touch up using glazes mixed to the color I want.   Basically,  I treat the gun stock as an oil painting.   You can do the same thing with a spirit varnish using natural pigments.   Violin varnish was and can be used on gun stocks and is pretty resilient.   If you use only violin varnish,  you need to apply an amber colored varnish as a base, and then a red varnish over top.   If you stain the wood using AQ then only a red varnish is required to give you the nice reddish brown color most are looking for.   When I use oil based varnishes and glazes, I just use good artist quality paints and oils/varnishes, normally Winsor & Newton.   When I use spirit varnishes, I make them up from scratch using resins and pigments I purchase from Kremer.