Author Topic: Quandary ?  (Read 14539 times)

Offline bob in the woods

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4557
Re: Quandary ?
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2013, 03:38:58 PM »
Having given this some serious thought. I had my smoothbore out yesterday and the actual mechanics of operating the lock are much easier [ for a right handed person ] if the lock is on the right side. I know there are double guns etc with locks on the left, but my right hand can bring the right hand lock to full cock while bringing the gun to the firing position, which is not as easily done with a lock on the left side of the gun.
So...that's my answer  :)

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13415
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: Quandary ?
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2013, 03:48:49 PM »
Just say no. In fact I wouldn't let him build that gun, too difficult for a beginner. I think a trade gun or tenn poor boy would be a good place to start so he can learn architecture.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Gaeckle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1355
Re: Quandary ?
« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2013, 04:07:06 PM »
Capt,
     The most obvious reason is because the correct sided lock right or left, directs the vent fire away from the face & eyes instead of across 2/3 of your face.  The same with a percussion lock in that cap fragments etc. are far less likely to hit the face and or eyes.   Yes we can learn to concentrate on the sights to the extent that we do not notice the flame of ignition.  The danger is there none the less and presents a higher percentage of danger.  Today most of us wear some type of reading or shooting glasses (or should) when shooting, thus we have a degree of protection that was not readily available when longrifles were the norm.   A solid reason better than "because".   

Ron


Best reason I've heard so far........

How old is this person to begin with?

Offline bluenoser

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 827
Re: Quandary ?
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2013, 04:36:20 PM »
Seems to me a left handed lock would likely be a little more difficult for a right handed person to prime and pick.

Does he intend to use the gun for hunting?  I have never carried a lefty while hunting, but would expect it to be somewhat uncomfortable in some carry positions - the cradle position for one.

There is also the safety issue with the increased possibility of the cock or frizzen becoming fouled in clothing.  Right handed people tend to carry on the right side.

Laurie

Offline Rolf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1762
  • There's more than one way to skin a cat.
Re: Quandary ?
« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2013, 07:13:08 PM »
I'm left handed and due to the lack of options, most of my pistols have rigth handed locks.
Priming them is akward, and I spill alot of priming powder if I'm in a hurry.

I would never build a lefthanded rifle with a rigth handed lock. I hope in time to learn enough to build my own left handed locks and avoid rigth handed all together.

Best regards
Rolf

Offline JTR

  • member 2
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4341
Re: Quandary ?
« Reply #30 on: August 06, 2013, 10:57:29 PM »
And shakes hands with the left hand too???
John
John Robbins

Vomitus

  • Guest
Re: Quandary ?
« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2013, 12:30:28 AM »
 Here's what I'd do and say. I'm here to show you the "right way" to build a rifle.After we've built a couple, you are free to build whatever you like.the end

Offline Captchee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 768
Re: Quandary ?
« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2013, 02:35:17 AM »
  Ah guys ,  are you all hearing me ?
.  He isn’t telling me what he will do.
 He isn’t questioning  why  I said  I wouldn’t recommend it . Nor is he going to put the left hand lock on .
 While  I call him a young man  he is in his early  30’s  and NOT  new to shooting muzzleloaders .
 The actual question  he posed to me. This is in so many words how it went

 I told him that the lock needed to be a right hand lock  and that what he was looking at was  rifle made for a left hand person . If you use this lock and place the lock on the left side . The  flame and pressure that is released from the vent will blow  very close to your face . Add into that if you shoot with both eyes open , the frizzen and cock may  block your line of sight .
 
  He then told me that he shoots  both left and right hand flintlock now and doesn’t have an issue  with  sight obstruction with the left hand  rifles   because he shoots with one eye  and that he has never noticed the flame being any greater from one then the other . But that he could understand what I was getting at .

 Later  and this is why I said my question was rather odd .
 I myself got to thinking about this.  I realized that I shoot a lot of SxS several are flints .  Add in to that  , through the years , more then a few left hand guns .
 Again , thinking about it , I don’t recall having any real issues either.
 This got me to thinking if  possibly we are perpetuating a myth  and really only  following what was done  because someone else had done it  that way , without ever knowing the actual reasoning behind it .

 Mike .
 I hear what your saying .
 Now maybe I was taught alittle differently .  When I was  young ,  I worked in a gun shop  when I wasn’t out in the fields . In the winter when there wasn’t much farm work , I was in the gun shop .
 Mostly clean up, de-priming casings and lubing bullets  .   I could not afford to build a muzzle loading rifle  and frankly even if I could have , the information wasn’t anywhere near what we have today …
 The owner of the shop , who back then was also the gunsmith  did not do muzzle loading rifles .  So eventually with the help of the shop teacher at our school , I  converted an old O3 A3 to  a muzzleloader . after finishing  my father would not let me shoot it tell , I took it to the shop and had old John look it over.
 He fired it a couple times and  gave me the thumbs up .
 A few weeks later I tuned 11 . John ask me if I would like to build a real muzzleloader  and dad gave him permission . From then on  every day after school I went to the shop . When I was done cleaning up , we worked on my gun .
Ironically I had an original to work from which was an old Liege ½ stock ,20 gage fowler with a back action lock . John cut the profile out  from a plank of English walnut , handed  it to me and said ; there you go , have at it .
 I learned a lot that spring . Most of which was what not to do  . To make a long story short , did my gun turn out like the one I was working from . No not even close . Mostly because john would decide that I needed to learn something and suddenly  my gun would have an  skeleton but plate , Ivory nose cap ….  .
 It also ended up with double set triggers . But not tell after I had spent a few nights filing out a single trigger and inletting it

  So myself , I don’t exspect this rifle to turn out  much like the one  Ron made . But it will have the general lines .
 Thus when he gets done , it will be his gun ,, not a copy of someone else’s , be it mine , yours or Rons .
 I will give him my influence , teach him to inlet , form , cast, solder , drill ………..
 What I wont do is stifle his imagination unless its  involves something that IMO is un safe .
So while I understand your concerns about this gun being difficult , I really don’t expect him to   come anywhere near  the overall presentation . But in his attempt he will learn  everything he needs to know to make the next one even better

Anyway , thank you all for your replies . Its been good to discuss this . Ill be sure to post photos of his finished work  when he gets done .
 Hope everyone has a great day and be safe

Offline Acer Saccharum

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19311
    • Thomas  A Curran
Re: Quandary ?
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2013, 03:11:56 AM »
Yeah, sometimes we trip all over our own feet trying to be helpful.  :D
Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

Offline Captchee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 768
Re: Quandary ?
« Reply #34 on: January 02, 2014, 03:51:00 PM »
 here is what he has so far Ron
 not doing to bad of a job . still has a ways to go  but i think its coming along nicly .  he has built the triggers , TG buttplate , stock from a  plank ....
still has  alot of shaping to finish up ,  checkering and engraving .
maybe he will be done by late spring .

 but again  not to bad  IMO for a first attempt
 


blaksmth

  • Guest
Re: Quandary ?
« Reply #35 on: January 03, 2014, 08:41:06 AM »
My Father all ways said the first rifle made by the apprentice went to the Master Gunsmith. And You don't want a left hand  rifle with a Right hand cheek piece! :D

 Whats wrong with making a Mirror Image of the gentlemans rifle in question? That would still be a compliment to the other gunsmith and your gun shop too!

 To do it like he wants would almost bring a certain amount of shame to your and the other Gunsmith in Question especially if the rifle comes out with a real  high dollar piece of wood, but a mirror image would be fine.

Offline Lucky R A

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1628
  • In Costume
Re: Quandary ?
« Reply #36 on: January 03, 2014, 02:37:54 PM »
Hi Cap,
      It looks like you have a very talented young man on your hands.   It is good to see a young person taking that kind of interest and someone with the "patience" to go through the teaching process with them.  I assisted a young man (I am 70 so 40 seems young) to build his first gun last spring & summer.  I must say that it was a very rewarding experience, especially in that the man had a reasonably good knowledge of tools and was a good visual learner. We shared many a good evenings together and became good friends.   Savor the moments that you have with the young guy, the time is special.  Remember you can buy most anything in life, but time....
     Give my best to your young man and tell him that I liked what I saw

Best of the new year

Ron
"The highest reward that God gives us for good work is the ability to do better work."  - Elbert Hubbard

Offline Captchee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 768
Re: Quandary ?
« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2014, 02:53:04 PM »
 well last weekend we finished the rifle up . i ended up doing the engraving for him  but everything else is his work .
 sorry for my poor attempt at the photos














« Last Edit: April 06, 2014, 06:05:04 AM by Captchee »

Online smylee grouch

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7890
Re: Quandary ?
« Reply #38 on: April 05, 2014, 03:21:45 PM »
Very nice job for both you guys. I'm thinking contemporary american english. Whats he going to build next?

Offline Captchee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 768
Re: Quandary ?
« Reply #39 on: April 06, 2014, 01:23:00 AM »
dont know . i have a full scale mountain howitzer coming in soon . May have him start working on the carriage for that 

Offline Lucky R A

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1628
  • In Costume
Re: Quandary ?
« Reply #40 on: April 06, 2014, 01:43:40 AM »
That is certainly high on the "Wow" factor.   For a first gun it don't get better than that.  Your young man is extremely lucky to have someone like you to spend the time and share the talent to produce results like that.   My congratulations to the both of you.  You have secured a place in the story of that young man's life. 
All the best   Ron
"The highest reward that God gives us for good work is the ability to do better work."  - Elbert Hubbard

Online rich pierce

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19451
Re: Quandary ?
« Reply #41 on: April 06, 2014, 04:02:38 AM »
Looks like he was blessed with not only talent but a terrific teacher/ mentor.
Andover, Vermont

kaintuck

  • Guest
Re: Quandary ?
« Reply #42 on: April 06, 2014, 04:26:19 AM »
It's the way our hands are made....when you pick up a rabbit eared shotgun....do you cock the opposite hammer first??? Noooo.....so it is a feeling and safer way to do a rifle correctly.....

But.....I bet those olden guys used what they had! Poor was poor!

Offline Captchee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 768
Re: Quandary ?
« Reply #43 on: April 06, 2014, 06:20:25 AM »
 thank you for the kind words  ill be sure to pass them on to him .

Quote
when you pick up a rabbit eared shotgun....do you cock the opposite hammer first

LOL ,,actually yes i do even though im right handed . but there is a reason for that .  the first SXS i  used was my grandfathers  and on that SXS the right barrel was full and left  modified .

 but  thats neither here nor there as , from what  has been  mentioned here , there are originals that had  left handed  locks on right handed  stocks . rare but apparently the did exist