Damascus Barrel Forging

[Chris Treichel]

Ford Hollum shared this link with me and I thought you would like it.  Its an old reel from about 1900 showing the forging of a damascus barrel using traditional tools.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_6Z3J4mscPs#at=1376

[DaveP (UK)]

What a find!
That was absolutely stunning.
Thanks ever so...

[Acer Saccharum]

The guys in the film are trying to act cool. See they all wear wooden shoes? Neat film.

[frogwalking]

I have shot a number of guns with damascus barrels, but have never known exactly how they were made.  Thank you.

[snowdragon]

Wow! They actually wove a name into the metal! And I think I'm all cool because I can case harden a lock plate. Bill

[Canute Rex]

Great video, thanks.

It reminds me of an old photo I saw of two barrel makers who had made a double for Prince Albert. His name was "woven" into the damascus. The pair was standing next to a man-sized stack of three foot diameter grinding stones they had used - that had started out six feet in diameter.

I suppose that there are no historical examples of a Damascus rifle barrel this side of the Atlantic. That is to say a deliberately decorative one. I can imagine a maker using a spiral wrap technique.

I suppose the long rifle community would forgive a barrel maker for departing from HC style to make one.

[Buffaload]

What a find!  Thanks.  I wonder if the guys that made the film realized what a value this would be 100 years later.

[Mark Elliott]

This is so neat!    

[fastfrankie]

AMAZING

[Chris Treichel]

I suppose that there are no historical examples of a Damascus rifle barrel this side of the Atlantic. That is to say a deliberately decorative one. I can imagine a maker using a spiral wrap technique.

Check out this link to a Congressional investigation minutes from 1912 relating to the import of Belgian Barrels, which also discusses the attempt to make damascus barrels in the US and why it was discontinued...

http://books.google.com/books?id=QDkvAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA900&dq=damascus+barrels&lr=#PPA879,M1

[LIBERTY]

Great piece of history!!!!!! Looks like they had their gun control fanatics back then with senator hayburn wanting to ban handguns.

[Captchee]

I suppose that there are no historical examples of a Damascus rifle barrel this side of the Atlantic. That is to say a deliberately decorative one. I can imagine a maker using a spiral wrap technique.

Check out this link to a Congressional investigation minutes from 1912 relating to the import of Belgian Barrels, which also discusses the attempt to make damascus barrels in the US and why it was discontinued...

http://books.google.com/books?id=QDkvAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA900&dq=damascus+barrels&lr=#PPA879,M1

 yep and if you read it , you will also read that  companies like Parker , colt , ithica remington . were all using belgium made barrels . they admitted it during the hearings
 Kind of a big OPPPS

[pushboater]

Simply amazing. Really makes you appreciate that old Belgium shotgun you have that your dad handed down to you. You could tell that those men had probably worked together for years. They were like a well oiled machine. Thanks for sharing!

Capt. David

[Dphariss]

This is a fascinating subject.  
When discussing Damascus barrels we have to remember that they were made in quality levels from unsafe when new to the best available, equal to Whitworth steel in actual testing both back in the day and today at least as far as shotgun pressure levels go.
The skill and diligence of the workmen and how much they were paid for the barrels were all factors.
Export quality barrels were often, "export quality" both in plain iron and in Damascus. Parker and probably some other American makers use high grade Damascus barrels. These were/are usable with nitro powders but need careful inspection since dents in one side of a double barrel may indicate the other barrel is damaged as well.
From my reading there were riots in Birmingham when the British developed machines that would make "machine made" Damascus.

Dan

[Dphariss]

The congressional hearing was very illuminating as to barrel sources. Birmingham was considered the 800 pound Gorilla in firearms parts in the  late 18th and the 19th c.  I will have to get out W.W. Greeners "The Gun and its Development" again and look at the barrel steel test data again to see how they rated import steels.
Then, the US being English speaking I suppose most of the writing on the foreign firearms trades would be from England, not the continent unless someone bothered to translate it.

Dan

[Meteorman]

well that video is just about amazing.
when the two guys are forge welding the wound-up tube, whats going on during the herky-jerky motion with the tube after it comes out of the fire, but before they start beatin on it ?

[greybeard]

I am curious to know how many man hours are involved to complete the forging to the point that the barrel is ready for boreing and machining.
    Those men didn't seem to waste too much time.
                  Bob
.

[eddillon]

I see confident pride on their faces and years of experience on their hands.  Amazing video.  Are there any Damascus barrel makers out there?  I recall someone doing it in Pennsylvania a few years back.  Would love to get my hands on one.

[gusd]

Great Film, I noticed they didn't wear gloves!
The Barrel & Mandrel must get very warm.
Gus

[Don Getz]

Do any of you recall the super Jager that John Bivins made in the late 70's.   We did all of the exterior shaping, and the bore
work on a "Damascus" barrel.   The method used to make it were not the normal way.   John found a blacksmith who was able
to forge a solid damascus blank which we drilled, rifled and shaped in the same manner as making one of our normal barrels.
According to John this was the first damascus "rifle" barrel ever made in this country.  This gun is shown in Bob Weil's book
on Contemporary  Builders............Don

[eddillon]

Was that barrel the one that was featured in an article in the book "Gunsmithing Tips"?

[wmaser]

well that video is just about amazing.
when the two guys are forge welding the wound-up tube, whats going on during the herky-jerky motion with the tube after it comes out of the fire, but before they start beatin on it ?

I went back to the video to double check but it was gone ,due to a copyright claim. However, If I recall correctly from my first viewing, that herky jerky motion you reference is the smith consolidating the coil by rapping the end of the coil on the side of the anvil. This ensures that the entire coil is closed, with no gaps to contend with. This step , alone, will begin the weld process by "sticking" the coil together. The mandrel is then inserted and the hammer welding begins.

[Old Bob]

well that video is just about amazing.
when the two guys are forge welding the wound-up tube, whats going on during the herky-jerky motion with the tube after it comes out of the fire, but before they start beatin on it ?

When he is rubbing the barrel against the projection at the back of the anvil real fast, he is likely rubbing scale off. Excess scale can cause problems when welding.

[Dphariss]

Great Film, I noticed they didn't wear gloves!
The Barrel & Mandrel must get very warm.
Gus

I believe the mandrel is dunked in water while the barrel heats.


Here is a modern knife maker making a damascus barrel.

Dan

OOPS
The link

[Captchee]

 i was wondering just how long that video would be up as   its only a small part of the information  on the Damascus barrels web site.
If I recall , Dave is the owner and has posted years upon years of information . Which not only includes  photos of many of the different patterns , but also how to identify true Damascus from  what most people think or call Damascus. You will also find  a lot of information and documentation as to  what caused  the demise of Damascus vs. the common  beliefs  that were propitiated and many times still perpetuated today . . This includes actual documents of the congressional hearings ,  sections on testimonies …….
And facts  with Supporting evidence  in the form of testimonies under oath  as to who was actually using Belgium barrels  ………
 Most all of  that’s free . But he charges for the video .
 Its all very interesting  information and a very well put together web site
http://www.damascus-barrels.com/index.html