Lye to stain Cherry

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Nice little tutorial Eric, and lovely work on that pistol.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

The one cherry stocked rifle I built, I stained with Red Devil lye and water.   I just guessed at the  concentration and tested on some scrap and watered it down until I thought that I could get the color I wanted in two applications.   I don't recall neutralizing it.   I think I just flushed it with a lot of water.   I used a utility sink and a hose at that time.   It turned out really well.   Photos are on my web site.  It is #8.

Just like Eric and Mark said..... I used pure Sodium Hydroxide  rather than the oven cleaner cause I don't know what else is in it. Historically Sodium Hydroxide and Potassium Hydroxide were used to darken cherry.

Test on waste wood!!  Too strong and wow it can get black!!  I flushed well with water and then sealed with  1# cut of dewaxed garnet shellac..

[Gaeckle]

Maybe ammonia fuming was used for coloring brass, too.

Sucks getting old......

Yup, good for aging brass.....Old, Scmold!

Be careful with oven cleaner......if the Lil Missus sees you with it she may think that your gonna clean an oven....

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Gaeckle - I'm a chef; not a cook.  A chef does not do dishes or clean ovens, but a cook does.  My 'truly fair' is a cook.

[T*O*F]

I always thought they dissolved wood pulp in NaOH to make news print.  Perhaps this method should only be used for a gun of the Reading school.   

[wmrike]

I've done the same as Mr. Wolfe.  The only downside is the careful dewhiskering required afterwards.

As to claims the lye treatment is only on the surface, it's not

[Gaeckle]

Gaeckle - I'm a chef; not a cook.  A chef does not do dishes or clean ovens, but a cook does.  My 'truly fair' is a cook.

.....that I understand and the equation is a three legged stool, so to speak. If there is a chef, GREAT! If there is a cook, even better! There has to be a consumer of what the chef makes otherwise the chef is in trouble....can you imagine a chef cheffing all that wonderful food without a consumer to consume it? It's pure bedlam.....so I've taken that matter into consideration and I will consume.......the world is now right and can continue to spin about it's axis.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

At this stage, I've finished scraping and sanding the stock, and whiskered four times with 400 grit.  On Tuesday evening, we're going to lay on the foam...film at eleven!

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Love the architecture Taylor!!

[PPatch]

And check out that lock mortise! Dat's cleannnn baby...

dp

[Mad Monk]

I always thought they dissolved wood pulp in NaOH to make news print.  Perhaps this method should only be used for a gun of the Reading school.   

You might want to check paper pulping sources on that one.  As in sulfide or sulfite.

MM

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I cannot take much credit for either the architecture or the lock inlet, though I appreciate the astute observations.  this was a pre-carve from TOW originally, I believe, bought by Leatherbelly from someone here on the ALR site.  We bought a 28 gauge barrel through RE Davis - think it might have come from the Mold and Gun Shop, but it's a really nice tube.  The furniture and lock we picked up from TOW.  I cut a 1/2" off the end of the butt to shorten the pull and to get rid of a chew mark left by Leahterbelly's soul mate Sam, the Daschhund (sp ?)  I bent the return of the butt plate down just a tad so I could strike a little off the top of the comb - these Tulle's are notorius cheek smashers otherwise.  The lock inlet was almost a drop in...a little more guts removed than I would have prefered, but it's a trade gun for goodness sake.  She's going to be a great shooter I think.

[Acer Saccharum]

Taylor, you're too funny.

Just take credit for the lock inlet, will ya? Even if you didn't do it.   

[Gaeckle]

- these Tulle's are notorius cheek smashers

Why is that? I have never shot one.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

There's two things about a Tulle trade gun as presented by the precarve folks...one, the comb is too high and you cannot get your face down on the stock low enough to escape the crack on the cheek bone, and two:  the butt plate pitch is extreme which pushes the butt stock up into your face when you touch her off.  trade guns from Tulle and St. Etienne in France were shipped here in their hundreds - maybe thousands, and they were all very similar.

[Gaeckle]

There's two things about a Tulle trade gun as presented by the precarve folks...one, the comb is too high and you cannot get your face down on the stock low enough to escape the crack on the cheek bone, and two:  the butt plate pitch is extreme which pushes the butt stock up into your face when you touch her off.  trade guns from Tulle and St. Etienne in France were shipped here in their hundreds - maybe thousands, and they were all very similar.

Do you think what you did will eliminate that or lessen it? Can you change the pitch to any degree, or is that pretty much pre-determined?

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

In the case of this gun, I cut a half inch from the butt so I was able to change the pitch angle a bit, and I know that that plus reducing the height and thickness of the comb on this cherry stock, will all but eliminate the cheek thump.  In the past, with this style of gun, I have heat treated the wrist and bent the butt down, to increase the distance of the comb from the line of sight.  This radically improved the shootability of the gun.

Here's the Tulle finished.  This is a combined effort of the gun's owner and myself.  He and I worked on this gun over the past couple of months to give the owner an opportunity to both learn what goes into this construction, and to have input into the thing.  We are both pleased with the journey and the destination.

[Smoketown]

Very nice work.

Beautiful results on the wood.

Well Done!!


Cheers,
Smoketown

[Keb]

Very nice gun. I just don't understand why it's so light. All the easy-off I used turned the wood a very deep cherry red color as in the pistol shown earlier.



To me, it looks like unstained cherry with some oil on it.

[T*O*F]

This is a combined effort of the gun's owner and myself.

How come he didn't get to put his name on the barrel also.   

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

This piece of cherry received two heavy coats of Easy Off with a soak time of five minutes each, and that is the colour I got.  I have learned to accept whatever the wood will yield, and do not use other dyes to enhance anymore.  I find adding alcohol based stains and dyes to eventually be a disappointment, as they are not colour fast and leach out onto your hands in use.  I would have liked to have seen a darker and redder colour too, but it didn't happen.  I'm quite happy with it as it is, and so is it's owner.
Dave, I signed it and serial numbered it according to the wishes of the owner.  She's No. 103.
And though I was not present, it was baptised yesterday, and first reports are excellent. 

[sweed]

EvonAschwege
   
Re: Lye to stain Cherry
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2013, 11:32:33 PM »    Reply with quote
I've used spray-on red devil oven cleaner with excellent results, both on flintlocks and some pieces of furniture.  Be sure you've whiskered the stock a few times as the lye wreaks havoc on the grain.  I neutralized the lye with vinegar, and then sealed with seedlac prior to finishing with an oil varnish.  I sprayed the lye on the stock with furniture and parts in place, then removed them immediately afterwards before any swelling could occur and crack the mortises.

Sir:
Praytell why you apply the oven cleaner to the stock with furniture and parts in place?  Doesn't that stuff affect brass, and iron in a bad way? Why not remove that stuff first?   

[E.vonAschwege]

Sweed,
   I sprayed on the lye with the furniture in place to minimize any swelling and change in the mortises and inletting.  Since any patina is going to be applied to the parts after the stock is finished, the lye doesn't really affect the brass or steel in a negative way.  They're only on there for the initial spray and then promptly removed and wiped down anyway. 

Taylor - the finished piece looks very nice.  The cherry should age with sun and use in a couple years anyway to a darker red.  You mention you've stopped using dyes to enhance color - does this mean you've switched to aqaufortis on maple? 
-Eric

[Habu]

I would have liked to have seen a darker and redder colour too, but it didn't happen. 

Wait a couple years, sunlight should darken it up nicely. 

[horseman]

 That is a beautiful stock!  I like the whole gun, but that wood!  And, according to your clock, it only took about twelve minutes.