Worth saving or not

[conquerordie]

Hello,

     I've been a lurker for a long time, and have learned a lot form all of you.  I have built several flintlocks from blanks.  As humble as they are, I'm proud of them.  I have never built a longrifle though.  Recently, I was given a TVM Early Virginia kit that was assembled by the former owner.  I can honestly say they did an extremely poor job which is why they did not want it anymore.  I thought I could save it, but I'm not so sure anymore.
     Most of all the excess wood was never removed, so I started with that.  While removing wood from around the breech area, I noticed the stock was cracked from the where the lock and stock come together to about and inch and a half down the wrist of the rifle.  I saw this when I disassembled the rifle.  I'm assuming the reason for this split is that the former owner used a wood screw instead of a tang bolt to strengthen this area.  So through recoil I believe the stock was cracked.  As I removed the barrel, the piece broke off.  A piece then broke off the other side of the breech as well.  So now I have two pieces of wood of either side of the breech to repair.  Neither piece is directly behind the breech plug, but running along the side of the breechplug where you would typically flatten the stock down to the side panels. I can glue and use surgical banding to repair, but now I'm concerned about the safety and integrity of the stock.
     What would you guys do?  I'm building this to hunt with, not as a showpiece.  The 44'' straight 54.cal barrel is heavy, but as long as I shoot somewhat quickly it is manageable.  Theres a lot of work I can do to make this a presentable and a good hunting gun, not a PC gun for sure, but I do not want to waste my time if the integrity is to compromised.  I hate to waste the parts, so I'll just start with another plank if need be.  I've never used a preshaped stock, and I find it more confusing now then when I lay my own stocks out.  But I can see the value in time saving though, and was hoping to field this for hunting in November.  If I start with a plank, that will never happen.  Anythoughts and ideas would be appreciated.  Be honest, if I should just trash the old stock I have no problem doing it.  I kind of see this precarve as a challenge now, but like I said, this will be a shooter, so I want it safe.  Thanks for the help,

Greg

[Acer Saccharum]

If the splits were caused by the previous workmanship, then by all means, you'll be able to make a workin gun out of it.

But if the wood shows other signs of distress, like the reason for the splits was checks in the wood, stress cracks from drying, or improper felling of the tree, then replace the stock.

If your idea is to make the gun 'right', or purty, then I'd start with another piece of wood. But for a shooter? You'll be fine with what you've got. Just make sure the barrel is seated properly against the breech area, and the tang/lock bolt holes have a little clearance.

[kutter]

Repair it. You have the original pieces that broke off,,that's a plus. You don't have to square up the breaks and glue in replacements then try and match grain and color.

Check the inletting of the original parts,,breech plug & tang, bbl, lock ect. Reset the tang w/a machine screw. Do everything you need to do to put it right and at the same time I'd keep in mind that I'd be (fibre)glass bedding those componenets back in place at the breech along with the two broken out pieces of wood.

No need to go wild and dig caverns around the existing parts for glass bedding material. You just want to relieve any stresses set up in there by poorly inletted parts that are showing themselves when the screws are tightened or the rifle is shot.

Most can be done w/o anything much showing on the outside,,that's the goal anyway.

Make the repairs, make it a solid rifle and you've got yourself your shooter.
Any extra wood can be shaped to a more pleasent form if it allows.

If you really like it when it's done,,the stock can be used as a pattern to turn another from fancy wood for yourself. Everything'll fit right then.

[P.W.Berkuta]

There are a few "problems" here at work and you have already stated that you are not pleased with this rifle. You also want to use it for hunting this November. This is what I would do if I wanted to use it this November: First - settle on the type of rifle you want and get a drawing of it.  Since you have said that the 44" barrel is heavy, I would cut off 4 to 6 inches off the muzzle this would lighten the rifle which would make it easier to handle in the woods. Then I would buy a plain preserved hard maple stock for the style you like that has been inletted for your barrel and ramrod hole drilled but not inletted for the lock.  Finish the rest of the work and you should be ready for your November hunt. My suggestions and mine only others might not agree but they are not me and I know what I can or can't do in that amount of time from a plank to produce a GOOD rifle.

[conquerordie]

     Thanks for the ideas.  I don't think the cracks are from any issues relating to the stability of the wood.  I ask the guy who built it and said there were no cracks when he built it.  The stock was never stained, and all he did was put a coat of some sort of oil on it.  Maybe that could have effected it? Dunno.  It just blows my mind how this went together.  It doesn't appear that he inletted anything except the sideplate.  Besides that it all looks machined out.  The lock mortise is hogged out, the rammer channel was routed out under the barrel so there is no wood there.  I will check the inlets especially at the breech to see how they are. 
     Now here my next questions.  I'm willing to try glass bedding the parts, but will I still be able to shape the wood after the pieces are put back on?  The lock side piece came off after I shaped that side, so only final sanding is necessary.  But on the sideplate side, I still have to remove a fair amount of wood.  Will I be able to file and sand this area after glass bedding?  If any of the glass bedding material shows after the stock is completed, is there a good way to conceal it? 
     I thought about shortening the barrel, but like many people these days, money is short, so keeping the same length is free.  I have a 46'' and 48" barrels in the past that never bothered me, but then again, they were light as a feather.  For now it will stay 44", but I would love to shorten it for weight reduction.  I gotta hacksaw, thats about it.
     I think I will try to repair it.  Acraglass is what I've read is good to use, any other suggestions as to a specific make that is better than others?  I might still end up stocking it from a blank, but it seems kinda interesting to try this repair.  Worst case scenario, I need a new stock but learned something valuable.  Thanks for the help, I will try to post some pics as I go.

[Acer Saccharum]

If you use accraglas, color it to the approximate color you'll be staining the wood later on. Epoxy will not take stain once its cured, and it will prevent the wood taking a a stain. Therefore, color the epoxy, so you will avoid white areas around your inlet parts.

[conquerordie]

Acer,
     I was looking at the Acraglas kit from Track of the Wolf.  From what I've read its recommended to use something else as a release agent, but the kit works well.  I still just want to make sure that after I repair the piece of the of wood on the sideplate side, I will still be able to shape it.  That side has not been worked on, and I might remove wood in places where I might work it down to the Acraglas.  Not sure that this will happen, just thinking its a possibility. Right now I'm going to be staining the stock dark, whilst trying to make what curl their is pop out.  But thats down the road. Thanks for the help,

Greg
     

[Smoketown]

  I'm building this to hunt with, not as a showpiece.   I do not want to waste my time if the integrity is to compromised. , but like I said, this will be a shooter, so I want it safe. 

Greg

Greg,

The Acraglass repair will be stronger than the wood itself yet, still workable with standard wood working tools

If you color the Acraglas even close to what the finished stock will be, most people will have a hard time telling the repair line from the natural grain.

If you are unhappy with the results, use brown and black permanent markers to add color to the repair using alcohol to 'adjust' the hue before the marker lines dry.

You can also 'soot' blacken the area to camouflage it.

You said it's going to be a  hunting gun. So, if all else fails ... Milk Paint may also be a historically correct cover-up.

Cheers,
Smoketown

[conquerordie]

Smoketown,

     Thats what I was hoping to hear, that it was strong yet workable with tools.  Well the Acraglas is ordered, and should be able to attempt the repair next weekend.  I'll post before and after pics.  Looking around the internet, I see that Acraglas can do some amazing restorations, so I feel confident it will work for me.  I went with the gel instead of the liquid as it seemed easier to work with.  Might have to take a day off from work so I can get to the repair sooner! Great ideas for covering up anything I'm not happy with. Thanks,

Greg

[mountainman70]

Here's the thing---- what have ya got to loose trying to resurrect this stock?Nothin ventured,nothin gained-cept maybe a whole bunch of experience you can always use/I have had good sucess saving some real challenging stocks.Go for it,and enjoy.Dave

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

The resin makes better glue for the repair, than the gel.  The gel works nicely for bedding the breech end of the barrel.  I use Kiwi shoe polish/wax and a toothbrush for release agent.  Either way, stain it quite dark prior to applying it so the glue line does not show.  I repaired a Hawken half stock that was smashed into many pieces, without any issues at all.  The rifle is still shooting strong, after several years hard use.

[conquerordie]

Mountainman 70,

     Your absolutely right, I have nothing to loose and much to gain.  The way I see it with this project I get to:
1) learn how to use Acraglas
2) learn blending techniques when it comes to repairs
3) get to practice stock shaping as it pertains to longrifles ( I've never done one)
4) get more practice with relief carving
5) inlet my first patchbox (maybe, it doesnt have one, not sure if I want to take that on right now)
6) and if I learn anything for future projects it will be to take your time and do it right the first time!  

Greg

[conquerordie]

So should I change my order from Brownells to the liguid instead of the gel? Looking a the inlets, the barrel and breech if anything were a little to tight, so I am mostly concerned about the wood repair.  Will the gel be too thick and not join the broken pieces as well?

Greg

[Smoketown]

Greg,

If you use Acragel, your glue lines will be wider than with regular Acraglas.

Cheers,
Smoketown