Siler tumbler

[Larry Pletcher]

I have a large Siler with a string of special handling done to it. I thought you might be interested in it.  It began as a deluxe Siler with LC doing the tuning.  Barbie sent it to Sam Everly who added a set of ball bearings to each side of the tumbler.  Sam describes these as space age: I would call them tiny.  I think he said the "ball" is .02 of an inch.  In the pics below you get a hint of this in the full view of the back side.  The second shows a close-up of the tumbler.   

The lock is extreeeemely smooth, but hasn't been sparked yet.  I haven't timed it yet either, but plan to this winter.  The lock wants to go to Friendship this spring, especially if we can get the high speed video guy there.





Regards,
Pletch

[Acer Saccharum]

Larry, that's VEEERRRY cool. I am very interested what these do for the speed of the lock.

Get yourself a set of replacement bearings. These little units won't take impact over extended periods of time. If you feel a 'crunchy' sensation on cocking the lock, my guess would be that the bearings are gone, and should be replaced. If you're at a shoot, you definitely want a replacement set handy.

Acer

[T*O*F]

Larry,
At your age you had better be careful.  That lock will be so fast, the gun will fire before you pull the trigger.

[Larry Pletcher]

Larry,
At your age you had better be careful.  That lock will be so fast, the gun will fire before you pull the trigger.

Heck, Dave, I thought the "Holy Grail" of flinters was one that had the ball past the muzzle before the flint got to the bottom of the frizzen.  Is that asking too much?   

Regards,
Pletch

[jerrywh]

Why not put a roller on the end of the main spring???

[Sam Everly]

I think Larry had a mix up, it may be LC built the lock for Jim . It was a std Delux Siler . I did the tune up, polish job and the bearings .The little bearings are tuff as nails , the balls are stainless as is the whole bearing . The first one i did is over 4 years old and has had thousands of shots . Jerry i have one full ball bearing, spring toe, frizzen toe ane even frizzen piviot screw. I had to stop at the tumbler for other peoples stuff, i don't have the time to do the full bearing models. There are several out there , but i can't do many more than i can now. It is more or less good friends out there now that have them . I do have to say on the tune up LC Rice did teach me how to tune up a lock. I just took it a couple steps farther. Jerry if you want to see one ,Ron Scott has a couple out in your neck of the woods .I just want to add this! When you take a built lock and do what i do to them, you find out how good a job was done, when it was put together. I will only do this to Jim Chambers locks . The fit and finish is way beyond any other brand.                 

[Tim Crosby]

 Jeez, keep this up and there will be a separate class for souped up locks.

Tim C.

PS: But it is REALLY cool! Man, there's a lot of work in that puppy.

PSS: Larry, with that one the ball will be long gone before the cock or the frizzen stop! 

[Sam Everly]

Jerry, i was just thinking . Jason from Rice barrels sent me a one of a kind a couple of years ago . It is now a Roller with Roller Bearings . He sent me a lock Bob Roller built useing a L&R flint Hawken lock plate with his internals .I did a tune up, polish and the bearings . Some one talked Jason out of it , for a good sum of money  and that is the last i heard of that one .  Now that was a odd ball .If i remember right it is marked L&R, Roller, and my mark SE.      

[Acer Saccharum]

My experience with the small bearing is that they don't like water, even if they are made of stainless. I make a lot of bearing assemblies for outdoor sculptures etc, and the bearings sometimes don't last a year. But this is harsh environment compared to a lock internal.

[David Price]

Larry,

That lock will be so fast the inline shooters will be converting there inline actions over to flintlock.

[Larry Pletcher]

Sam,
Thanks for correcting and adding to my comment.  I think the lock is way cool.  I really have to get it drilled and taped so I can time it.  Thank you for your time and effort on this lock.

Acer,
I have no experience with bearings this small.  I guess that I'll do my best to keep it properly lubricated and see how it goes.   Sam's comment about his early lock gives me confidence.

Jerry, David, Tim,
Thanks for your thoughts.  I think it will be quick.  I hate to speculate before timing, but my hope is more for extraordinary consistency than for extreme speed; although speed is obviously desirable. 

David,
Maybe we can patent a "kit" to retrofit a ball bearing Siler to an inline.  With the right hype we could sell millions.   

Seriously,  Sam did  a great job, and the lock is a gem.Thanks all.
Regards,
Pletch

[jerrywh]

Nice job Larry. Man that thing is pretty.

[ChipK]

I have two locks with Sam's magic done on them.  One was a very old small Siler that was so loose only a dream and a wish kept it together.  The other one was  a little used English Round Face.

Both have a vast improvement as felt in the hands of both this old shooter but even better yet in the hands of my 7 year old daughter.  The old lock was on her rifle.

[Dale Halterman]

An alternate to the ball bearings is the use of oil impregnated bronze bushings. I have not done it, but Jim Chambers told me he has and it works great.

Dale H

[Dphariss]

Have another mainspring made with a roller to bear on the tumbler. This will make it more like a tumbler with a "link".
The friction on the tumbler is about all thats needs to be addressed to make it "frictionless".
I don't think there will be any shock to the bearings, not enough to break them. But what do I know.

Dan

[T*O*F]

An alternate to the ball bearings is the use of oil impregnated bronze bushings. I have not done it, but Jim Chambers told me he has and it works great.

Yeah, it may work great, but not for very long.  OilLite bushings are for applications that have no side stresses.  Both axles are constantly under downward pressure from the mainspring.  That's why the axle holes wear and the tumbler gets sloppy.  The use of OilLite bushings would only accelerate that wear.

It's time that determines what is great, not immediate results.

[Sam Everly]

Dphariss, i have one i did for myself that has them on everything . I just reworked a std spring,the brearing is about .125 in dia and i think it was .125 wide . It has around 750 to 1000 shots on it. But it takes way to long to do them for others , so i don't . It still works great .I gave one to Earl Lanning to have Bud Siler look at it , Bud went nuts !     

[rsells]

I have a couple rifles with Sam's modification made to the locks and have had no problems.  I wish I could plan ahead good enough to have Sam modify every lock I use.  I have several rounds on one of the rifles have been very pleased.  They are very smooth and quick!
                                          Roger Sells