Forestock webbing

[Micah2]

For a swamped barrel, am I ok with there only being 1/8 between rr groove and barrel?  Is this 1/8 going to be enough to pin my thimbles?  I can maybe get 3/16 but any more and I will expose too much ramrod.
Also, I am planning on using underlug staples as suggested by Mr. Homer Dangler, should I at least use one dovetail lug on lower forestock?  Thanks.

[Acer Saccharum]

Web thickness depends on the style of rifle/fowler I'm building.

If it's a big brawny gun, 3/16 at the muzzle . A delicate little thing, 1/8 is a nice thickness to try for. 5/32 or 3/16 at breech for the passage of the front lock bolt between barrel and rr channel. I can always have the lockbolt enter the bbl channel or rr channel a little. Just file a groove on the bottom of the barrel to let the lockbolt pass, or reduce size of rr a little to sneak past the lockbolt.

With a swamped barrel the web will get thicker in between muzzle and breech because the barrel gets thinner at the waist. That makes the web get thicker. I hope that makes sense. I am at a loss for words right now.

[Tom Currie]

You should one barrel pin or underlug in the lower forestock. 

[JDK]

What Mr. Dangler suggest may be fine for heavier walled barrels or staples installed by a skilled hand, but be careful with the commercial staples available if your web is thin as most I've seen will be taller than 1/8" installed.

Be especially careful if your barrel wall is thin...as it probably is in the waist of that swamped barrel....as you have to drill holes to install the staples.  If you are using a punch to then upset the metal around the feet of the staple to hold it, it is not difficult to dimple the bore when doing so.  I suggest you either solder on solid lugs and file them to the height your web is thick, or at least solder the ones in the waist on and dovetail the rest.

J.M.2.C.  Enjoy, J.D.

[Ed Wenger]

1/8" is fine for the r/r thimbles and barrel pins.  I think J.D. gave you some very good advice relative to staples vs soldered under lugs.


    Ed

[smallpatch]

JDK, 1/8" is fine.  That, along with exposing more barrel and ramrod, will assure you a slim profile.
As far as staples..... maybe not.  I like them myself, but you figure it out, even using a 1/16 pin, you're probably already over your 1/8'.  At the same time, many contemporary and original guns, have underlugs breaking through into the RR channel/barrel channel.

Recently, I've been using the shallow, slotted dovetail lugs.  The dovetail is shallow, and you can file down the profile, and they are already slotted.  Adjust the fit with a few taps from a hammer.

[flehto]

On the Bucks County LRs I prefer 5/32" web at the muzzle and slightly less than 3/32" at the breech.  To pin the bbl using 1/16 dia music wire,  the bbl lug pictured below is used. The dovetail depth is .050 and the pin is w/in .010 of the bbl. This thin web between the hole and bbl  is filed down to the bbl surface and then elongated. The  1/8" thick brass lug is soldered in before drilling the pin hole.

 For the front lockbolt, a #6-32 is used and even w/ the smaller dia., a shallow groove must be filed into the bbl to avoid violating the RR hole.

[Acer Saccharum]

Remember that the lugs are only to hold the wood onto the barrel. That's right, the BARREL is the structure, not the wood.

So the lugs do not need to be massive, just big enough to hold a few ounces of wood against the barrel, and to resist the wobbly loading of the ramrod being pulled in and out of the stock.

The web should be thick enough so the stock isn't going to split right down the web. 1/8 is fine.

[flehto]

Outside of the 1/8" thick lug shown, the remainder of the brass lugs are made from .040 thick stock ...just folded into a "T" and soft soldered.  The lug at the bbl waist is soldered on and the other 2 lugs are dovetailed to a depth of .035. The waist on the 46" lg  "B" weight Rice bbl is fairly small, so I think a soldered on lug is better suited......Fred

[Mark Elliott]

The location of the barrel lugs is based on the style of rifle.  PA rifles tend to have lugs starting in the middle of the lower forearm.   Virginia and other southern gun have the first lug at the end of the lower forearm around the rear thimble.  An early VA rifle should have the first lug forward of the rear entry hole.   The thought among the early VA riflemen was that the first tennon should be as far as possible from the breech for best accuracy.   

[JDK]

....The thought among the early VA riflemen was that the first tennon should be as far as possible from the breech for best accuracy. 

Mark, Have you seen primary documentation to support this?

I am always interested in reading period documentation that supports why things were done as they were.

Thanks and Enjoy, J.D.

[Acer Saccharum]

Tenon location is just one of the features to attribute a gun to a certain region.

When posterity looks at my guns, they will think I worked all over the map.

[David Rase]

When posterity looks at my guns, they will think I worked all over the map.

Tom, I always said you work was out of this world.
David

[Acer Saccharum]

Dave, I missed you very much at Dixon's. 

[Rich]

 1/8th inch should be enough. With a swamped barrel, it is only 1/8 at the breech and at the muzzle. It's more in the middle. With the ramrod pipes, leave the tabs long so the tab extends into the barrel channel. Scribe the excess and remove it. You will end up with the pipe tabs touching the bottom of the barrel. This will keep the pipes from moving after the barrel is installed. For the staples, I seem to remember that Dangler had some sort of contraption to construct them. An easy jig to make staples is to take a small piece of 1/8 inch steel and drill a hole the size of the staple material (I use 1/16th inch wide finishing nails). The hole should be placed 7/32 inch from the edge of the steel. To use it, stick a nail though the hole and bend it up to the edge of the steel. Cut off the end extending through the hole. Clamp it in a vise and bend the nail over the edge and cut off the excess extending beyond the steel. You now have a staple that is 3/16 inch tall. Leave it in the steel and file in the foot, turn it around and file the other foot. Install it 1/16 inch into the barrel. It will stick up 1/8 inch and have an area for the pin that is 1/16 by 3/16 wide. When you drill for the pin, that's your target. I use the drill press method described in Recreating the American Longrifle and a 1/16 inch pin.

[Micah2]

Thanks for all the replies.  I felt like I was ok.  This is a c weight rice .54.  I have plenty of barrel wall and considerable flare so that 1/8 ish was in the center section of barrel.

As to barrel staples I intend on using finish nails.  Most likely it will be an acutal lug on lower forestock, I will work on my dovetailing.

thanks again.

[Micah2]

Correction:  I have up to 1/8 at muzzle and 5/16 or so in center.  Thanks again.  Looking forward to posting pics...