Starting Place ?

[Rkymtn57]

Would some experienced bench shooters  please help me decide on a place to start with
my  42" Grn. Mtn.  .50 Cal. rifle. It is a Pecatonica River, Dickert that I built myself.
I have decided that I could greatly benefit from someone else s knowledge .
Right now im in S. Colo. (no humidity) shooting a .490 hornady round ball , 70 gr. Goex xxx ,  cotton patch cut myself ( thickness unknown )  but it needs a starter and is pretty tight using bore butter. Im hitting , lets say a 8 1/2 x 11  paper usually at 50yds. off a bench w/ sandbags. I dont think I have any business trying to shoot this rifle offhand YET !
Im willing to change this load to .495 and suggested patches or whatever you would recommend.
A lube that requires little swabbing between shots would be appreciated.
I understand their are many diff. opinions but I would be gratefull for a place to start and a loading routine.
Private Messages are welcomed.
Thank you very much. D

[smokinbuck]

It almost sounds like you are cutting your patches upon loading. Have you tried to find and look at any after you have shot? I use a .495 ball over .015 pre lubed, not oiled, Ox Yoke patches. I would start at 55-60 grains of 3FFF and work up from there. I have one chunk gun with a similar, perhaps heavier, barrel that shoots into one hole with 90 grains 3FFF, .495 ball and the .015 pre lubed patch.
Mark

[smylee grouch]

I have or had several GM 50s and all took a tight weave patch thick enough to make 495s a tight load combo. They all shot great when enough load development was taken.

[SCLoyalist]

I've eliminated most of my cleaning between shots by using, depending on which rifle I'm shooting, either moose milk lube (murphy's oil soap, alcohol, ballistol) or a pretty wet spit patch.  The loading process pushes fouling from the last shot down atop the new powder charge, but when fired, the ball goes out through a clean bore.   (Wet spit patching has obvious risks with respect to rust for hunting, but for shooting in a match it's okay.)

As to finding an accurate load,  keep shooting off bags.  I'd go to a fabric store, like JoAnns, and buy about 1/3 yard of a couple of different thickness of pillow ticking (so once I found the magic patching, I could buy more of it).    Then, armed with .490 and .495 balls, two thicknesses of ticking, and two or three lubes (e.g. bore butter, spit, moosemilk), start trying the different combinations of each,   3 to 5 shot groups until I found a combination that produced somewhere around a 1" group or less at 50 yds.   (Lay hands on a copy of Dutch Schoulz's Accuracy System package, and he'll go into more detail on how to systematically work up a load, but the gist of it is vary one load parameter at a time and once you've found the 'best' value for that parameter, don't change it ever - just work on finding the best values for the other parameters.)

Good luck. SCL

[Standing Bear]

First, use a small aiming point on the target.  1" mostly round or square made with a black marker will suffice.  stick on dots work too but not any better.

Second, make sure your bench technique is adequate.  Really solid sand bag rests front and back and use the front hand at the toe of the stock - I like to even have my elbow supported when shooting a curved butt plate off the upper arm.  The bench and rests should be high enough that you are sitting straight up.   As I am using the bench to tune for offhand shooting, I sit at right angle to the line of fire.

GM barrels have been said to need 100+ shots to start attaining accuracy potential so shoot it a bunch or lap the barrel.  My .54 GM is starting to group better tho it was pretty good from the start.

Wipe between shots till you get a load you know works then work on no  wiping.  I lightly moisten a patch by laying it on my tounge then one pass in and out.  Use the other side of the same patch for the next shot.

Try the same ball patch and lube combinations with FFg Goex.  Many find great improvement using an over powder wad.

Good luck!
TC

[T*O*F]

GM barrels have been said to need 100+ shots to start attaining accuracy potential so shoot it a bunch or lap the barrel.

Ditto on this info.  One or the other needs to be done even before you start fine tuning your sight adjustments.  Read your patches carefully until accuracy improves.  There is also a fire lapping process that can be used with a compound that you lube your patches with.  Can't remember the name of the stuff, but it might be made by J & B.  A google search under "bore lapping" should turn it up.

[SCLoyalist]

Can't remember the name of the stuff, but it might be made by J & B.  A google search under "bore lapping" should turn it up.

JB Bore Paste or JB Bore bright may be the product name.  Track sells both.

[smokinbuck]

Go to any NAPA store and get a small tube of valve grinding compound. Don't put to much on your patch but lube up about 1/2 dozen or so patches and shoot them as you would normally do. It seems to clean up the edges on new barrels and will also clean a lot of $#@* out of older barrels that have sat idle for a long time. If there are different grades, get a fine compound, not course.
Mark

[Dogshirt]

There is also water based and grease based valve compound. Use the water base if you go this route.
Much easier to clean up.

[smylee grouch]

I have in the past made up batches of patch lube with the JB bore cleaner mixed in. I used it and found that the already slik bore still had a slik bore, couldnt tell if it helped or not but it didnt hurt anything. I was told that JB bore clean has an ultra fine silicon grit in it so it might help polish (sp) the bore.

[Rkymtn57]

Thank you all very much , exactly the things that will help me get a good start.
The bench techniques are great.
Any more suggestions would be appreciated. D

[Pete G.]

Drop the Bore Butter and go for a wet lube for targets. I like somewhere around 7:1 water/Ballistol, which is similar to the aforementioned Moose Milk. Don't worry about lapping the barrel just yet. Shoot enough to learn the follow through necessary to shoot one of these things, and by the time you get that down the loading and shooting will have lapped your barrel.

[drago]

This is all excellent advise, but I think they missed the main reason in your description. Your going to need to go where the humidity is at least 98% to get the same level of enjoyment as the rest of us get. You just had to rub that in. I would have replied sooner but was searching for a dry towel.

[Don Getz]

Fellows, this guy is having trouble keeping his shots on a piece of paper 8 1/2x11, it should do that good without a patch.
You're talking about lapping a barrel, you won't need that until you are shooting 1 1/2" groups and trying to make them all
go into a 1/2", let's get him on the paper first.   There is something drastic going on when you can't keep them on a piece of
typing paper.   I would have to watch you shoot before I would make a recommendation.   Even going from a .490 to a .495
won't be that drastic........Don

[jamesthomas]

 Sir, the cotton patch may be thick but if the weaving is to loose the patch will cut or be blown to pieces when you shoot. As said, go to a fabric store with a good pair of calipers, JoAnns Fabrics Store is where I go, and look for some Pillow or Mattress Ticking, The red stripe pillow ticking will measure around .012 to .015 in thickness, the blue stipe pillow ticking will go around .018 thick, They also should have blue stripe MATTRESS ticking that in my store goes around .022 this is what I use. BTW, all these measurements are compressed measurements. And don't worry if the ladies there look at you funny when you start measuring the fabric they've seen it before I'll bet. Get 1/3 of a yard a piece an try them out, one of them will let you shoot the group you are looking for. When you find it go back an buy a bunch at least 3 yards, this will give you enough to shoot foe a good while. Also get on their mailing list because they will send out coupons that will be 30% to 40% off or better and then you can stock up.

[Rkymtn57]

Thank you all !
Yes Mr. Getz     I think a good part of it is me , and my shooting form .
I think I'm gona work on bench technique and reducing a recoil flinch , the flash dosnt bother me at all.

[WadePatton]

the closer you can get your upper body to a standing position, the less recoil will rattle you on the bench. 

that and go back to rimfire until you flinch is gone.  and you must have a pal load for you to test for flinching. 

NO thing reveals flinch like dropping the hammer on a dead round or dry hole (when you fully believe that it is a live round/load).  So have a shooting partner.  Test him/her too.  It's simply good marksmanship. 

[drago]

They call the pillow ticking utility cloth at the JoAnns here

[Rkymtn57]

Great advice from Great people !
http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z366/rkymtn57/IMG_20130908_160103_940.jpg
I know its not much for some of you at 50 yds. ,  but it gives me a great place to start and confidence .
.490 , 60 gr. fff (will switch to ff later ) , .022 Linen ,  spit ,   no cleaning between shots.
How about a suggestion for a lube for 2 or 3 days hunting ?
Thanks again , DD

[jamesthomas]

You can't go wrong with Track of the Wolfs Mink Oil. I find very good for hunting an range shooting. You can leave it loaded for 3 or 4 days at least.

[Standing Bear]

I had trouble w straight mink oil in the Texas heat. Need to thicken it w bees wax for here. Straight should b ok for week long loading in moderate even cool to cold weather.
TC

[Dogshirt]

I would point out that your load of fffg will not be the same in ffg. Switching will require some more load development.
But that's a reason to shoot more. 

[Rkymtn57]

Yes , thank you , I'm still waiting on some .495 lead also.
I'll keep working on it.   DD

[doug.brayman]

First off, if your not keeping your shots on paper, I have to ask if you are shooting a flintlock off hand and is this your first go with a flinter?

[nosrettap1958]

Rkymtn, just some "I can feel your pain" type of experience. It took me years to figure out why my rifle hated 3Fg so much. Good luck and keep shooting she'll eventually tell you what she likes and then what she loves.