Rowan County NC bag/horn

[Dennis Glazener]

I thought you all might enjoy seeing an original bag that was with a Rowan County NC flint rifle that I recently purchased. The size is very interesting. Its 7" tall by 6.5" wide when the flap is closed. The horn is attached to the strap as is the river cane charger. The simple horn measures 11 inches from tip to end of the wooden plug. The contents are flints, flattened lead strips and a couple of pieces of patching material. The loose pieces on the left are leather pieces from the bag and strap.

Photo by Mark E. Elliott Photography Mechanicsville VA

[alyce-james]

Good evening Dennis; Sir, thank you for sharing your latest addition to your private collection. Most interesting and I'm always interested in the contents found in original bags. Jim.

[skillman]

Very nice Dennis. I really like the combination. The bag is just the size I would have thought. A wonderful find.

Steve

[Joe Schell]

That's a nice outfit Dennis. Dose it have an inside pocket ? Any chance we could see the rifle it was with ?

[Frank Barker]

Dennis, could you give us a little more info on the pouch.
 
1. Is there an inside pocket and where is it sewn ?
2. Is the flap sewn on or is it a part of the back ?
3. How wide is the strap ?
4. It looks like the pouch is sewn wrong side out and turned, is it sewn with a welt or without ?
5. What kind of leather is it made of and about what weight leather is it ?
6. Is it lined or unlined ?

Thanks for posting this pouch, it is always nice to be able to study them and see how those old timers put them together. 
Thanks and Kind Regards   Frank

[Dennis Glazener]

Frank,
Note the answers to your questions below.
Dennis


1. Is there an inside pocket and where is it sewn ?
No pocket at all.
2. Is the flap sewn on or is it a part of the back ?
Actually the top 2 inches of the back of the pouch is a different type of leather, looks like it might be deer skin or something that is tanned completely different from the rest of the bag. Not sure if its a repair or he didn't have enough of the other kind of leather and used this to piece it out. I tend to believe the latter. the ends of the straps are sewn to this added piece. There also is a sewn up slit in it, looks like the side near the front/back seam, just below the strap may have split on him and he whip stitched the split.
3. How wide is the strap ?
Its 7/8" up toward the shoulder and a tad over 1 inch where its attached to the bag. Possibly stretched/shrunk in the thinner areas.
4. It looks like the pouch is sewn wrong side out and turned, is it sewn with a welt or without ?
Sewn as you suggest and no welt.
5. What kind of leather is it made of and about what weight leather is it ?
 I believe the bottom/strap is cow leather except for the 2 inch piece mention above. I am not that familiar with the different weights but about the same as the thicker leather pouches used today, except the 2 inch piece mentioned above is much thinner.
6. Is it lined or unlined ?
Un-lined.

[Frank Barker]

Thanks Dennis for taking the time to give us this information. I may try to put one together here before long. Do you think the lighter piece of leather may have been add as a hinge for the flap due to the thickness/stiffness of the leather. But if this was the makers mode of thinking, I wouldn't have attached the straps as such. Maybe some of the other pouch makers can give their thoughts on this. What say there Tim A.

Thanks Again and Kind Regards   Frank

[Dennis Glazener]

Do you think the lighter piece of leather may have been add as a hinge for the flap due to the thickness/stiffness of the leather.

No I don't think so since the actual fold is in the flap itself which is the thicker leather. I think he might have run out of the thicker leather but that's only a guess.
Dennis

[B.Barker]

Thanks for posting the bag and horn, Dennis.

[Chuck Burrows]

I thank you as well ...and as for leather ounces - 1 oz  = 1/64" thick

[Dennis Glazener]

Then using Chuck's formula the thicker leather i.e. strap/bag its a little under 9 oz in the thicker places and a little over 7 oz in the thickest places. The flap being just under 4 oz (well worn). I can not measure the thickness of the 2 inch leather that is sewn on to the top of the back piece but it appears to be a little thinner than the flap.
Dennis

[G. Elsenbeck]

Dennis, thank you again for sharing and giving us some insight to an original.  I love the size and shape of this pouch as well.  Thank you again Dennis.

Gary

[Frank Barker]

Dennis....Would you happen to have a picture of the back of this pouch ?

Thanks  Frank

[G. Elsenbeck]

Frank, you're reading my mind.  Good idea.

Gary

[Frank Barker]

Gary......That's those inquiring minds want to know.   

[Dennis Glazener]

Dennis....Would you happen to have a picture of the back of this pouch ?

Thanks  Frank

No, only had Mark make one of the pouch. I will see if I can snap a couple more with my cheap digital camera but they will not be anything as nice a Mark's photo.
Dennis

[T.C.Albert]

Frank, I would like to see the back before I can really make a good guess why they used a different leather insert strip on the back panel as described...

My off the cuff guess...after it was made, the initial strap attachments tore there, necessitating some repair to the back panel at a later date...just a guess till I can see it better.

But as Dennis suggests, the simple answer could be that they ran out of leather? But then why not just shorten the flap accordingly etc...
tc   

[Dennis Glazener]

This is the back of the bag.

This is the front of the bag.

[T.C.Albert]

Thanks for the great photos Dennis...
I'm gonna go with a repair to the back panel...
And I also feel that the strap has definitely been reattached as well...
numerous times...as is usually the case.

I'd even speculate, just for discussions sake, that originally the flap and back panel were
one continuous piece...but once the torn top of the back panel was cut away, the flap needed to be reattached as well...but again, that is pure speculation on my part.
tc
  

[Frank Barker]

Tim, I think you are right with the strap tearing away and it being reattached. That never entered my mind when originally accessing the pouch. You can tell it was a prized possession because it has been sewn, sewn and re-sewn. Dennis, thank you for being so patient and supplying us with all of those wonderful pictures and thank you Tim for your expert opinion. Thanks again and Kind Regards   Frank

[James Rogers]

Thanks for the great photos Dennis...
I'm gonna go with a repair to the back panel...
And I also feel that the strap has definitely been reattached as well...
numerous times...as is usually the case.

I'd even speculate, just for discussions sake, that originally the flap and back panel were
one continuous piece...but once the torn top of the back panel was cut away, the flap needed to be reattached as well...but again, that is pure speculation on my part.
tc
  

I concur with your speculative analysis in toto TC.
Nicd pouch Dennis.

[Rkymtn57]

Thank you for posting !

[Frank Barker]

Dennis... I hate to be such a bother but could you post a picture of the flap. That is the only part of this pouch that we haven't seen without the horn covering it. Thanks   Frank

[Dennis Glazener]

Hope this helps.
Dennis

[Frank Barker]

Thanks Dennis, That was the missing link. You are  much appreciated. 

Kind Regards   Frank