Beeswax finish

[Sawatis]

Hey y'all,
I'm looking for info on using bees wax as a final finish over BLO on a new build.  Wallace mentions it in his old carving video and Gary mentions in the powerpoint he has on this web page...now I tried this one about 12 years ago on a rifle and its holding up fine...but it was a bloody mess to apply and took a coons age to buff out. Do any of y'all use this? Hey Gary if your out there...could you provide your method?  Must be an efficient way to do this...just haven't had that ah ha moment
Thanks guys
John

[tallbear]

John
Unfortunately Gary passed away last year. I have used Gary's method of applying beeswax after talking to him about it in a carving class. The beeswax is applied by driving it in with heat. Heat the wood with a heat gun melting it into the wood until it will take no more.This will take several applications and a chunk of wax about the size of a lemon.Once it will take no more wax the wood is buffed.This will not work with a stock that has finish on it  must be raw wood.

Gary also used a method to touch up the wax finish that does work on stocks that are finished. You dissolve bees wax in turpentine until it is the consistency of Vaseline.Then apply just like paste wax ,let dry and buff.

This rifle is finished with beeswax.



Mitch Yates

[Long John]

With the beeswax finish, what happens if you leave the rifle out in the sun on an August afternoon?  I have had beswax get very soft and sticky at the temperatures (around 100 F) that can be achieved just by doing that.  Does the finished stock start oozing wax?

Thanks for your input.

Best Regards,

JMC

[Acer Saccharum]

I've finished a few guns with beeswax, never had one ooze wax. It's a great finish.

[tallbear]

John
The finish is basically in the wood. I never had any trouble with it getting sticky or the finish oozing out, this rifle pictured above was my personal target rifle for several years before I sold it.Other than renewing it a couple of times a year there was no down side and I never felt that I should have used another finish.I would have no problems using it on another gun.

And to answer a question I've got a couple of times it doesn't attract bees  

Mitch Yates

[Sawatis]

Thanks for the quick replies folks. Was sorry to hear about Gary...spoke with him two years ago in KY when I was at the gunmakers workshop. Now he shoed in his ppt the beeswax over linseed oil, so I am guessing that would be the wax in turpentine TallBear mentioned...i made up a mix of wax in boiled oil about 20 years ago and used it as a topcoat...but it was real stiff...a little turp might loosen it up a touch. 
Wonder how an oiled stock would react to a heatgun will have to experiment with my test piece for this one!
Thanks for all the insight
John

[tallbear]

The touch up mixture doesn't require any heat.Just apply ,let dry and buff.A heat gun will ruin any type of oil finish.

Mitch

[Sawatis]

Yeah I figured that the oil finish will crinkle if heated...just need to make the turp/wax mix like soft shoepolish and see how it behaves. I'll post a picture of it when its done
Thanks Mitch
John

[Dphariss]

I have a two friends one who has done extensive research into old wood finishes and another who has a business that uses beeswax by the ton. Both think the Beeswax finish is la-la land stuff. The one thinks its nutty.
There is not one shred of historical documentation for its use on gunstocks. Except for an Army officer ordering his troops to remove the finish from their muskets and apply beeswax. Probably the 19c equivalent of picking up cigarette butts....
So far as Williamsburg Gunsmith shop and stock finishes. All I can say is its pretty amazing.
I will say this much more. Just because they found long bows coated with beeswax on the Mary Rose is no indication it was used on firearms. Nor has anyone FOUND any such a finish on original guns so far as I know.
I suggest that someone finish a piece of wood with beeswax then rub it with the hand and see the result.  I know that I would not want this finish in contact with my face with a rifle that makes much recoil.

Gary Brumfield's passing was a loss to us all.

Dan

[Acer Saccharum]

While there may be no known historical precedent, I know the finish is a good one for me. I do not have a waxy face or hands from the gun. It's IN the wood, not ON it. But anyway, to each his own.

[RichG]

is the stock colored with aquafortis or nitric acid and the beeswax applied over it? or is it just the beeswax that shows the grain? that's a beautiful finish.

[tallbear]

Dan

Gary never claimed that he had historical reference to beeswax as a historical gun finish and neither did I !!!!!!

He did however have historical reference to it being used as a bar top finish in England. Gary used beeswax as his personnel go to finish and to my knowledge it had nothing to do with Williamsburg.It is simply a finish alternative that provided good results for him and others.Once buffed the finish is as slick as any other waxed stock.

RichG

The stock in my photo was first stained with two coats of Nitrate of Iron stain(aqua-fortis) blushing between coats. Then the beeswax was melted into the stock.The wax penetrates so deeply that it seeps through into the barrel channel on the side of the forestock.

Mitch Yates

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I had heard of using beeswax as a complete and final finish on a muzzle loading gun, and until I actually handled one of Cody Tetachuck's rifles with such a finish, I was skeptical.  Seeing is believing for some of us, so I thought I'd give it a try on my S. Hawken build.  Here's what it looks like upon completion - total elapsed time, 1 hour.  This is on a piece of very hard NY maple from Tom Curran.



In 100 F sunshine, the wax does not leach to the surface.  It repels water like a duck, and is very easy to touch up.  After nearly three years of use, there is no appreciable difference in the appearance of my rifle, and I have not reapplied wax yet.

Period appropriate or not, it is a great stock finish.  I have yet to find one better for wear and permanency.  But I'm open to suggestions.

[WadePatton]

Taylor, Tom, Mitch (any each all): Please indicate more specifics of your application if they differ from the above "mix with turp" and "use heat" generalities.

thanks

as i'm going to be pressed for time getting this rifle into service/sighted for season-I'm quite interested in a quick and good finish. 

[Acer Saccharum]

I heated mine over a bed of coals. When wood is really hot, the wax will suck right into the wood, and little moisture bubbles, or expanding gas comes out of the wood. As the wood cools, it pulls the liquid wax deeper into the wood.

I have finished maple salad forks and spoons this way, and I can leave them in the sink, or stir tomato sauce, and never a problem with water absorption or staining.

PC or not, it's a great finish.

[WadePatton]

I heated mine over a bed of coals. When wood is really hot, the wax will suck right into the wood, and little moisture bubbles, or expanding gas comes out of the wood. As the wood cools, it pulls the liquid wax deeper into the wood.

I have finished maple salad forks and spoons this way, and I can leave them in the sink, or stir tomato sauce, and never a problem with water absorption or staining.

PC or not, it's a great finish.

Thanks Tom.  I have plenty of "coals" ready to be made into a heat source. (and i heat with a woodstove).  Did you "dilute" the wax or just get it melty* or smear it cold onto hot wood like soaping up a sled runner?

Good enough for Acer and Taylor is good enough for me no doubt.

*new word for they day.  i try to make at least one new word per week. 

[bob in the woods]

I have used beeswax as a finish, and have settled on it for my personal use. I warm the wood and rub it on, and then watch as it disappears into the surface. Yes, it will actually penetrate all the way through the forearm and into the barrel channel.  Buff the surface when done and you have a finish that is in the wood and is about as waterproof as you can get. Try it on a piece of scrap first, and make your own decision.

[Sawatis]

Well Y'all, I should have posted this question before I went and started oiling her down!
Had I I would have given the beeswax a try the way y'all have been saying.  Will have to go on the next rifle up!
Thanks for all the insight!
John

[David Rase]

I have used a bees wax finish with no problems.  I melt bees wax and turpentine 50/50 in a double boiler or glass jar in a pan of water until it is liquid.  I then paint it on the gunstock.  Wax will harden upon application and sit on top of the stock.  I then use a heat gun or hair dryer reheat the wax mixture.  When it turns liquid I rub it into the stock with a piece of terry cloth towel. 
David

[Stophel]

I'm always amazed when I see people's beeswax finish success stories.  I, however, simply cannot see it being useful as a stock finish.  Quick, yes. Purty, yes.  Durable, not so much.  Anything I have ever tried wax as a finish on will water spot BADLY.  Sure, I can just reheat it, but I shouldn't have to do that.  I have wax on some walnut gun rack things I made.  It's a fantastic quick easy good looking finish for something indoor that doesn't get wet.  But, in my experience of playing around with it, it is simply not a worthwhile gunstock finish.

 

Of course, very often, things that work for others, simply do not work for me.

[stuart cee dub]

 Regarding Beeswax .

I have a part ''polymerizing beeswax propolis and a hint- of -boiled linseed oil'' concoction that Randy Hengl made up using a formula he got from a furniture restoration guy .Supposedly an old german formula furniture finish from the 1700's. At room temperature the cake is quite hard .I think that is key.

The stuff must be heated up ,turning it from a hard solid in a double boiler,to a liquid  and then painted and heatgunned into the finish .
It makes a superior quick and durable finish especially on walnut ,wonderful for trade guns . Doesn't spot either, beads up water like Raindance.

But it is not pure beeswax.Wish I knew what the mixture and it's percentages actually are. Pure beeswax may not be the answer.That is soft at room temperature.  

[magyar]

I am very curious about this kind of finish. What would you think about it applied to a highly figured maple stock? Would it highlight the curl or deaden it? Anything that could be done to the stock to bring the curl out before applying beeswax?

Oh, and any worry about keeping the beeswaxed rifle in your tent in bear country?

[tallbear]

To highlight the curl I would stain with Nitrate of Iron stain first then apply the wax.That is how I did the stock below.

Mitch Yates

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I agree Mitch...exactly what I did on my Hawken.

[WadePatton]

Whoa that Nellie.  Forgot how "controversial" beeswax and wood can be. Been reading old postes.

So I'm going to experiment with it.  Seems quite mixed in "review" even of those who'd like to use such.  I'll report from my coordinates...and moon phase.