Stepped wrist(FINISHED)

[cmac]

I'm working on an early rifle with a stepped wrist.  I thought I may have taken too much wood off at the forward point of the comb, but with the 3 1/2-3 5/8" drop it looks just right. The problem is the step in the wrist being about 1 1/4" ahead of the point of the comb. I feel lengthening the guard would be too much.

The rifle is getting a single trigger and doesn't have to have the stepped wrist but it is prefered. Any thoughts?

[E.vonAschwege]

Hey Cmac,
    1 1/4" ahead of the point of the comb sounds like a bit, but it may happen to be what works for your particular gun.  Lets see a photo of the profile and then we can better our thoughts.  A lot of early guns appear to have a heavily stepped wrist, but on close examination the actual step is very slight.  It is exaggerated in photography because the underside of the stepped portion (under the grip rail) is rounded, while the rest of the toe is flat. 
-Eric

[cmac]

The 1st photo shows where I would like the forward part of the triggerguard the 2nd where I would like the back half to be. The bottom line of the butt is wood I plan to remove...So the step isn't too large.

After looking at RCA photos it looks as though many locks may have had the sear at the very rear of the lock plate-moving the trigger or triggers back. Maybe a combination of tweaking the sear and lengthening the guard would put me closer?

[E.vonAschwege]

You can probably tweak the sear a bit further back, remember to heat treat it once you're done. Pounding the grip rail out isn't going to give you too much more length.  I'd do the sear bit, then move the guard back ever so slightly.  I'd say you're still well within range of the original guns, don't lose too much sleep over it.  You can also go with a larger guard - http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/922/2/TG-EARLY-2-B  is substantial, but still would look reasonable for a big wide single trigger. 
-Eric

[Mark Elliott]

With double set triggers and a proper guard it should work.   I assume, you are working on a Virginia rifle.    If so,  the bow should be significantly longer than the grip rail with the bow being a loose three fingers wide and the grip rail being two fingers wide.   You will need to make a proper guard or have someone else make you a guard.   To the best of my knowledge, there are no proper Virginia iron guards commercially available.   I make iron mounts on order.   So does Marc Tornichio.   Others may also make good iron mounts for sale. 

[cmac]

Just a single trigger on this. Which makes me want a guard with longer grip rail than bow, but think it would look funny

[Tom Currie]

Looking at your first pic I think you could start the trigger guard a bit farther back making the end closer to where you would like it to be. Looking through RCA quite a few trigger guard bows attached just a hair forward of the tumbler shaft. This might also make it easier for your single trigger to reach the sear ( wouldnt have to be as long ).

 

[Ed Wenger]

Without seeing the entire wrist/butt of the piece, I'm inclined to agree with Tom.  The step doesn't need to align with the end of the comb, and personally, I think it looks better that way, seems to "flow" better.  Let us know what you come up with, and how it turns out.

    Ed

[Acer Saccharum]

I like to locate my trigger, then locate the guard, then make the step. Comb nose and step don't have to align.

This gun has them pretty well aligned, but it's an accident, and it's predicated by the guard. I like to end the step near where the rear guard extension starts its curl up and out of the stock toward the grip rail. That said the guard has a huge influence in the placement of the step.


This gun has a different step placement, due to the rear extension of the guard so far down the stock. It would look poorly to cut the nose of the comb back to match; it would also look poorly, in my opinion, to have the step run up under the grip rail and stop in the middle of no where. This is from my imaginary 'Guidebook of Beautiful Gun Building', chapter 3, pg 13.

[bgf]

If you must use a single trigger and that TG, I would split the difference and place the front post of the trigger guard a hair past center of the tumbler axle (as Tom Currie said) and put the step back even with the comb, cheating the TG rear return forward a little so that it seems to grow from the step.  As long as the rear strap/post of the trigger guard is starting to curve when it emerges from the step or shortly thereafter, it should be OK, for me at least.  It doesn't look right at all if the step is ahead of the comb, in my opinion, only.

I think the real answer is Mark Elliot's: go to double set trigger and larger bowed TG.

[smallpatch]

I KINDA agree with Tom.  First, the step should terminate where the rear extension of the guard like he says, AND if you look at his examples, they pretty much terminate in the same area as the comb.  Gives a nice slender wrist.
Ya just need a longer trigger guard.  Solves both problems

[whetrock]

TVM sells a long-bow guard, in what many have come to think of as "H House-style VA". It is available in both brass and steel. You might want to have a look at it. If you don't want to go the custom-guard route, then it might be possible to reforge the steel version of this TVM guard to the shape you need. (It seems to be quite long. That's presumming that the grid in their photo is a 1" grid. It might be worth a call to verify that.)

http://tennesseevalleymanufacturing.com/catalog.php?category=trigger_guards

[Acer Saccharum]

If you do go with a bigger bowed guard, try to avoid the 'single trigger all the way forward' in a big bow look.

[Jerry V Lape]

It appears in your first photo the front of the bow is actually 1/2" or more forward of the axle for the cock.  If so you can certainly move the guard back at least to that position as the sear is going to be far enough back from there to let you get a single trigger in place.  That would bring your step more in alignment with the nose of the comb.  From there I don't think you have a problem. 

[whetrock]

If you do go with a bigger bowed guard, try to avoid the 'single trigger all the way forward' in a big bow look.

chapter 3, pg 14.   

[cmac]

I must mention the owner to be has a trigger finger the size of my thumb. My plan as of now is to get the trigger in and go from there. If I have to I can forge another guard. After the day job anyway

[Dphariss]

I recommend that you look at the Schreit rifle  where the bottom line of the forend breaks into the wrist.(or #41 or #42 or #48 which breaks about the tail of the lock).
Ignore the guard and where the stepped wrist may or may not have started and look at the bottom line and where it starts to transition to the toe line. In my photos this is at the tumbler hole in the lock. Moving this point forward drastically changes the wrist and will make the wrist far deeper than it should be.

Dan

[cmac]

I will see what I can do. Thanks for the comments guys

[cmac]

Here is what I've come up with so far. I bent the sear back and cut the grip rail out of the triggerguard and welded in a 1/2" longer piece. The guard still needs a bit of tweaking and filing. I'm not as close to the comb as I would like to be but I think it is much better.  Thoughts?   

Oh and the trigger is a single adjustable I made up(not a single set)

[Elnathan]

I'd try to get the grip rail into a nice smooth single curve instead of that s-curve it appears to have now- Is that what you mean by "tweaking and filing?"

[cmac]

Yes I don't like the curve it has now either, and it needs to be filed down some.

[Acer Saccharum]

To make a bend just where I need it, I make up shaped maple blocks to squeeze the grip rail in the vise. Powdered rosin will help to keep the guard from slipping in the maple blocks.

One side of the vise is a block with a point, and on the other side of the vise is a block with two fingers. put the section that you want to bend between the fingers, and focus the point where you want the bend to take place.

[Ed Wenger]

I'm thinking that should work nicely once you get the guard tweaked...


     Ed

[cmac]

A progress update... Still a lot of scraping and sanding to go. As well as metal work, and finish work.

[bgf]

Looks like a pretty good workaround.  I think I would cut the step back about another 3/8" (?) or so, pretty much so it bisects the curve of the TG backstrap return.  Just my opinion -- I'd listen to others if/when they differ !