Cherry

[billd]

I know cherry darkens with age. I'm building a fowler and want to leave the wood natural to darken on it's own.

I guess natural sunlight is best??? 

Does it darken faster with the finish on it or left bare??

I'll be using tung oil or something similar. Would finishes with UV blockers slow down the aging?


Thanks,
Bill

[Sam Everly]

Most people darken the cherry with Lye ( Red Devil ) . To me Cherry with just a oil finish is to light . It could take several years to get dark or age dark . That is just what i like .

[Roger Fisher]

Ol Bill should consider a darker finish now (if that's what he wants) "Wait several years??? Ol Bill is no kid anymore!  (Either)

I like'm dark - (Gun stocks)

[AndyThomas]

I built a cherry stocked rifle two years ago, just using Tung oil. Unfortuneately, I haven't seen the rifle in over a year. It was still fairly light, although I and the guy that bought it thought it was beautiful.

Sometimes I think we're too used to looking at 200+ year old guns and want the ones we have to look like that. I wonder what the guns that were carried in the late 18th century looked like. How'd they maintained them. Did thet keep them polished up or let them turn brown? Did the old guns we see now get dark with age or were they made that way? What did they do when they "cleaned" a gun? How far did they go? How much pride did they have in their guns? What did that pride induce them to do? etc, etc.

Just some thoughts,
Andy

[volatpluvia]

Billd,
I say it agian.  If you want your cherry to look slightly aged and really beautiful, give it one coat of boiled linseed oil.  Wipe on copias amounts, wait ten minutes and wipe it off.  Wait at least a week and then start applying your tung oil.  I know what I am talking about here, as I have done it with guns and furniture.  You won't be disappointed.  Try it on sanded scrap first if you like.
Alternately, If you prepare your stock completely for finish and then set it in direct sunlight, turning it ocassionally so both sides are equally exposed.  The sun's movements will take care of the top and bottom of the stock.  It can be set on the inside of a window, it makes no difference.  Just let it there for a couple of weeks or longer until you are satisfied with the look.  Then apply your tung oil. 
Never stain cherry.  To me it looks crappy.  When someone stains it real dark it is sacriledge to me.  Household lye makes it too red in my opinion.  Hope this helps.
volatpluvia

[billd]

Thanks for all the answers. I do not want it stained. Even with lye it is too red for my taste. I bought this blank last summer at Dixon's Fair, very fancy wavy grain with quilting. It's been standing in a corner here since. The side against the wall is much lighter than the side exposed to light. Many of the modern finishes have UV Blockers, which I think may slow or stop the natural darkening process. That's what I'm asking if anyone knows.

I like volatpluvia's idea, but where can I get "GOOD" boiled linseed oil? I'm not comfortable boiling it myself. I have images of the deep fried turkey video on YouTube going thru my head.  Or maybe even a mushroom cloud rising over my neighborhood.

Bill

[Jerry V Lape]

Look for boiled linseed at an artist supply store if you have one nearby.  They might be a little more expensive but usually you can get smaller quantities so storage of the excess isn't as difficult. 

[mykeal]

Both my local hardware stores (both are national chain stores Do It Best and Ace) carry BLO in the paint section. They also carry tung oil finish, which I understand is not the same stuff as tung oil.

[billd]

Thanks, mykeal, but the BLO is not the right stuff either. You have to boil it down yourself in a deep fryer and some add other stuff too.  Do a search in the archives and you'll learn much more than I could ever tell you.

Jerry,  Is the artist BLO very dark colored?  I think that's where volatpluvia is getting his color from.

Bill

[Ron Scott]

I am helping my son build a baby cradle of cherry wood. He has a group of trials running currently to darken the color using  UV lights. The preliminary results are promising. We should have some observations to pass on in a couple weeks. Get back to me if you would like the resulting details.

[volatpluvia]

Billd,
I just used the stuff at the hardware store.  It is rather dark in color, but I think that what it does to cherry and walnut is a chemical reaction because the same effect is not there with other woods that I know of.
volatpluvia

[Sackett]

Billd,
I say it agian.  If you want your cherry to look slightly aged and really beautiful, give it one coat of boiled linseed oil.  Wipe on copias amounts, wait ten minutes and wipe it off.  Wait at least a week and then start applying your tung oil.  I know what I am talking about here, as I have done it with guns and furniture.  You won't be disappointed.  Try it on sanded scrap first if you like.
Alternately, If you prepare your stock completely for finish and then set it in direct sunlight, turning it ocassionally so both sides are equally exposed.  The sun's movements will take care of the top and bottom of the stock.  It can be set on the inside of a window, it makes no difference.  Just let it there for a couple of weeks or longer until you are satisfied with the look.  Then apply your tung oil. 
Never stain cherry.  To me it looks crappy.  When someone stains it real dark it is sacriledge to me.  Household lye makes it too red in my opinion.  Hope this helps.
volatpluvia

I second this.

Thanks for all the answers. I do not want it stained. Even with lye it is too red for my taste. I bought this blank last summer at Dixon's Fair, very fancy wavy grain with quilting. It's been standing in a corner here since. The side against the wall is much lighter than the side exposed to light. Many of the modern finishes have UV Blockers, which I think may slow or stop the natural darkening process. That's what I'm asking if anyone knows.

I like volatpluvia's idea, but where can I get "GOOD" boiled linseed oil? I'm not comfortable boiling it myself. I have images of the deep fried turkey video on YouTube going thru my head.  Or maybe even a mushroom cloud rising over my neighborhood.

Bill

I noticed you said you've had your blank sitting in the sun. Once you start cutting on it I think you're going to find any darkening in the color is going to change to fresh wood immediately. Like volatpluvia said, have it finish ready before bothering to put it in the sun for darkening.

Look for boiled linseed at an artist supply store if you have one nearby.  They might be a little more expensive but usually you can get smaller quantities so storage of the excess isn't as difficult. 

I've bought it from Hobby Lobby before, if you're in the states both Hobby Lobby and Michaels are good places and you should be near one or the other. It probably will be a little more expensive, but it will be good quality. Also, not to sound cheap, but as a starving college student, I became aware of nifty little things like coupons. Michaels usually has them in the Sunday paper, and Hobby Lobby has one on their website every week you can print out. Both usually offer a 50% off one item coupon. http://hobbylobby.com/weekly/weekly.cfm?page=2

[billd]

Ron,    yes, please post the results of your cherry cradle or email them directly, whichever is easier.

Bill

[Stophel]

Here:

www.photobucket.com/albums/v326/Fatdutchman/Original%20Flintlocks/Massachusetts

The grain is filled (presumably with a shellac type stuff???).  Definitely NOT oil finished.  The wood is pretty much natural color as it was when new.  I will presume the finish was grain filled with shellac, which seems to be more or less intact (SOMETHING other than oil or dirt is filling the grain), then an oil varnish or spirit varnish on the surface, which is all gone now.   There are a few spots on the gun where the surface has been filed off, and oil has soaked in, and the wood is rather darker and more purplish.

Of course, I'm forgetting that "black oil", boiled quite thick, will dry quickly, and won't soak into the fibers of the wood, and won't turn it dark like raw oil or modern "boiled linseed oil".....

 I also wonder about the use of turpentine based finishes....

Cherry will oxidize if left exposed to air to a nice light brown color.  I don't know how long this takes.

A lye solution will turn cherry rather red.

[keweenaw]

Stophel's last comment is an interesting point.  If you take cherry and let it in the light it will initially and rapidly get darker and more red but after awhile sun exposure will lighten it to a light brown color.  My kitchen cabinets are noticeably lighter and browner close to the south facing window than in the rest of the kitchen which can't get direct light.  It's my opinion that the wonderful red color ancient cherry furniture has - I have an 1820 vintage dresser - is more due to oxidation of the wood and finish than to uv or other interaction with the light. 

As for changing the color of the cherry with lye, well it isn't staining.  Stains and dyes apply some colored compound to the wood and what you see is the color of the applies material over the background color.  Lye treatment is changing the color of the wood itself, just as would exposure to the environment, only at a faster rate.  If you think that lye makes it too red, try fuming it with nitric acid.  Take a quart jar, put a small amount of concentrated nitric acid in the bottom of it and then hang a small scrap of cherry in the jar by a string.  The wood should be suspended and not touch the acid. Put the lid on and you'll be amazed at how it darkens.  If you leave it too long it will go black.  This could easily be scaled up to stock size with a sheet plastic tent and a tiny fan to circulate the nitric acid fumes.  Stickley darkened his furniture that way.

Tom

[Dphariss]

If you finish with a real boiled linseed oil finish it will darken in a couple of weeks if maple and walnut are any indication..

This was a pretty light, about like bare hickory or lighter, piece of American grown European Walnut and it darkened nicely after oiling with dark home cooked linseed oil. This oil WILL soak in unless VERY thick, more like molasses but this is not used for anything but fill for walnut.
Clear modern finishes will not do this and I am not sure about tung oil either.
It will also bring out any figure there might be in the wood.
If you are worried about being water resistant mix it with something to harden the oil. I use Grumbachers oil painting medium III.
Mixing with this and/or aged turpentine will thin the oil and increase penetration. Just make sure the turp is well mixed.
Or it is possible to use tung oil for the last couple of coats.


Dan

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Nice shot Dan - both times! (rifle and camera)

[Dphariss]

Best part is he is 20 yards from the road

Dan

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

...wonderful when a plan comes together.  it usually does not.

[Kermit]

Our shop uses a LOT of cherry for furniture. Also walnut, both black and claro. And a lot of curly and birdseye maple.

It's the UV that does the trick. Black walnut will actually lighten with time, losing that purple tinge. Claro doesn't do that. And cherry (speaking generally here, there are several species) darkens and gets sort of a nutty brown. We've had pieces come back in for repair after years of exposure, and it's a pain. Once you sand it, that color is back to square one, so it's do the whole piece. Hint: don't let your dog on your table.

I'd be careful to keep the stock moving/rollling. Where the light doesn't reach it, it darkens much less. We have seen pieces where something like a lamp or vase or table runner has covered an area for a long time, and it really shows up. I think I'd try the full-spectrum/grow-light/blacklight type of flourescent to see if it would speed up the process.

Applying an oil finish will usually darken cherry somewhat right away--kind of takes that pink shade off. For me, time and light are what makes for the best color in cherry. And don't bother doing anything to the wood until every bit of your shaping, carving, and scraping are finished.

[oakridge]

Snyder is correct. I made my kitchen cabinets and window trim out of cherry. The only finish put on was sanding sealer (whatever that is). Over the years the cherry darkened considerably to a deep dark red. However, the window sills on the side receiving direct sunlight have ?bleached? out to a light brownish red. Doesn't look too bad, but is very obvious. The lighter color of the window sills took years to do that, though.

[Stophel]

I found a cherry tree broken and blown over in the woods once years ago (ice brought it down).  The busted wood had been exposed for some time and was a most beautiful light brown.

My cherry stock blanks that I have had sitting around for a while are this color, but as soon as you cut into them, they're light pink/orange again.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Fine Cherry furniture has been made for several hundred years using lye to darken it. I would assume that in the 18Th century many gunmakers who used cherry, especially in New England and Philly, probably used lye to darken their guns. If you use real lye, the concentration of it in the water will determine the color from bright red to almost black.

Also save yourself some grief and get some Chambers' Antique Oil finish to use after you seal the gun with a 1# cut of dewaxed shellac.  I have a three year old cherry Fowler that was very red, still can see the red in the sun but inside or in the shade it is the classic dark cherry color.....still has awesome figure in the buttstock.

[billd]

Thanks again for the replies,   I don't have any BLO but I tried some Chambers, Wahkon Bay and Behrs Tung Oil on a slab from the side of the blank. The chambers left it unchanged which surprised me because it has a brown color to it. The Wahkon and the Tung both darkened it considerably, the second coats of each remained the same, maybe the tung oil got a little darker. I'll get some BLO from the art supply store this weekend. 

I appreciate all the suggestions to use lye or a similar chemical, but I'm steadfast and stubborn to leave it natural. I just don't care for the red color lye gives you. 

Thanks,
Bill

[Dphariss]

Thanks again for the replies,   I don't have any BLO but I tried some Chambers, Wahkon Bay and Behrs Tung Oil on a slab from the side of the blank. The chambers left it unchanged which surprised me because it has a brown color to it. The Wahkon and the Tung both darkened it considerably, the second coats of each remained the same, maybe the tung oil got a little darker. I'll get some BLO from the art supply store this weekend. 

I appreciate all the suggestions to use lye or a similar chemical, but I'm steadfast and stubborn to leave it natural. I just don't care for the red color lye gives you. 

Thanks,
Bill

It takes time for it to darken. Put it in the sun with no window to act as a filter.
The stock on the rifle above changed hardly at all when the oil was put on and it was pretty dark oil. In a week or 2 the color was much better.
Art store BLO is as purchased and must be head modified and bodied to make a good finish. Stand oil is made is different manner that stock finish and will not perform the same.
If you want good oil you have to make it or get it from someone who does.
I liked Parks BLO from the lumberyard till they switched brands. The stuff they sell now is darker to begin with and seems to make OK finish.
This is the base oil, as bought its paint thinner not stock finish. You need to heat it with some limestone or other calcium carbonate to neutralize the acids and a little Japan Drier to help the drying a little, tablespoon to the gallon is plenty less will likely work OK. Once heated high enough to smoke for 1/2 hour or so its good to go for a light oil when cooled.
I think in a few days you will find the Chambers oil will darken the wood satisfactorily.
The top 2 photos are a few months apart and predate the last photo by over a year.
But different cameras, different light etc etc.

Dan