Author Topic: Any of us using a "Fitting Stock" (Read 12949 times)

Paddlefoot · « **on:** January 18, 2009, 07:38:26 AM »

I didn't want to take the LOP and drop thread over so here's my question. Do any of us us a test stock when we build for someone other than ourselves? If so how is your test stock constructed and what dimensions does it adjust for?

490roundball · « **Reply #1 on:** January 18, 2009, 04:31:22 PM »

Peter Alexander shows a very simple try-gun in his book (page 66). it is just a couple pices of plywood with several inches of overlap in the wrist area. the buttstock piece has a slot so that it can slide and pivot in relation to the other piece. a bolt with a wing nut locks it down.

Rick

James Rogers · « **Reply #2 on:** January 18, 2009, 05:47:49 PM »

I have in the past used a gun that was much to short and too low for most people and built it up with moleskin and cardboard. I am designing a fully adjustable try-gun for muzzleloaders using a piece of pipe for a barrel.

Ideally you need to have adjustments for LOP, grip length and angle, cast on and off, drops at comb and heel, pitch, and toe-in and out.

roundball · « **Reply #3 on:** January 18, 2009, 07:25:13 PM »

Quote from: Rick Losey on January 18, 2009, 04:31:22 PM

Peter Alexander shows a very simple try-gun in his book (page 66). it is just a couple pices of plywood with several inches of overlap in the wrist area. the buttstock piece has a slot so that it can slide and pivot in relation to the other piece. a bolt with a wing nut locks it down.

Rick

Great idea...simple to make...could probably use a 1x6"...I might try that, thanks

490roundball · « **Reply #4 on:** January 18, 2009, 09:15:50 PM »

Quote from: Capt. Jas. on January 18, 2009, 05:47:49 PM

I have in the past used a gun that was much to short and too low for most people and built it up with moleskin and cardboard. I am designing a fully adjustable try-gun for muzzleloaders using a piece of pipe for a barrel.

Ideally you need to have adjustments for LOP, grip length and angle, cast on and off, drops at comb and heel, pitch, and toe-in and out.

True -

and prior to stocking a modern shotgun, I built up the old one with wood putty and scrap wood and shot clays and hunted with it for a while prior to making the replacement. But I think its a bit more critical for modern shotguns. Any number of makers or their agents in the side by side world offer the service, depending on the skill of the gun fitter and whether or not you are buying from them, the session will run you from the $300 to $500 dollar range (or more if you are thinking London best). Those try gun have joints and minute adustments that boggle the mind.

For a rifle, since your eye is not the rear sight, it can be a bit less complicated. IMHO

Rick

James Rogers · « **Reply #5 on:** January 18, 2009, 09:51:36 PM »

Very true. since I know how to do it though, I prefer to have a rifle fit just as good as a scatter gun, especially on the comb.

Paddlefoot · « **Reply #6 on:** January 19, 2009, 08:09:43 AM »

It seems to me that when you look at the extreme differences in drop and cheekpiece placement on some of the old guns there must be some allowance for shooting style too. Something along the lines of standing very errect vs leaning into the recoil or maybe shooting over crossed sticks.. Any thoughts on this?

t.caster · « **Reply #7 on:** January 19, 2009, 09:05:31 PM »

I've used one since I began building for me and others. I thought I had an original idea until the late Pa Keeler (mentor) told me the English have used them for 200 yrs or more. He called it a "try-stock". Anyway I made it using a damaged precarved stock Pa had around. It is adjustable for drop & pull. It is in a generic Lancaster shape. Actually, I have two of them now. I fashioned a wooden barrel with sights in it for proper sight alignment when fitting. I'll check to see if I have any pics later.

Greg Field · « **Reply #8 on:** January 19, 2009, 09:53:53 PM »

T.Caster: I'd be very interested in seeing it.

Benedict · « **Reply #9 on:** January 19, 2009, 10:51:30 PM »

I, too, would be interested in seeing it.

Bruce

t.caster · « **Reply #10 on:** January 22, 2009, 08:37:32 PM »

Here's my "try-stock". Now it aint pretty or hi tech, but it beats the heck out of Alexander's plywood model. There is no adjustment for comb height, but I don't think it is needed on a longrifle. you set your cheek on the cheekpiece and adjust the drop up or down until your eye looks instantly down the sights when you pull it up to your shoulder.
Maybe I should have a different one for the Lehigh or Bedford shaped stocks with they're curved combs, but I don't build many of those.
The thumbwheel near the buttplate provides fine adjustment of the trigger pull.
This has been my well guarded"secret weapon" for many years of custom rifle building!
A lot of reluctant customers are convinced to spend the money on a handcrafted rifle once they know it will be built to FIT THEM! That is a guarantee of shooting satisfaction. Now you know!
Comments and other ideas are welcome.
http://s203.photobucket.com/albums/aa43/REXTHOMAS2/TRY-STOCK/

Ken G · « **Reply #11 on:** January 22, 2009, 08:59:07 PM »

Dang'd if that ain't slicker than ....well it's just slick! Thanks for sharing.
Ken

Benedict · « **Reply #12 on:** January 22, 2009, 09:00:22 PM »

TCaster, that is a nice looking try stock. Obviously, it has worked well for you. I have one that I built some time ago but have not been able to get it to stay adjusted long enough to try out. I know I need to work with it some more to work out the kinks and seeing yours gives me some ideas about how I might solve some of the problems. One thing that I was trying to do was to put in a degree of freedom for cast off. Do you find not having that (at least I do not see it) to be a problem?

Thanks,
Bruce

Paddlefoot · « **Reply #13 on:** January 22, 2009, 09:49:22 PM »

I have to say that is one neat setup you have there. Thanks for posting the pics.

J.D. · « **Reply #14 on:** January 22, 2009, 10:39:31 PM »

Quote from: Ken Guy on January 22, 2009, 08:59:07 PM

Dang'd if that ain't slicker than ....

Snot on a swamp.

I wonder if it would be advantageous to have different buttstocks for straight combs as well as roman noses combs. Or is the amount of drop no different for buttstocks with straight combs and roman nose combs.

Thanks,
J.D.

James Rogers · « **Reply #15 on:** January 22, 2009, 11:21:04 PM »

Quote from: t.caster on January 22, 2009, 08:37:32 PM

Here's my "try-stock". . There is no adjustment for comb height, but I don't think it is needed on a longrifle. you set your cheek on the cheekpiece and adjust the drop up or down until your eye looks instantly down the sights when you pull it up to your shoulder.

Very nice!

I do wonder though without comb adjustment other than everything being raised from the breech area if someone needing a very high comb would end up with the butt much higher than needed and the wrist much too straight to be comfortable?

t.caster · « **Reply #16 on:** January 23, 2009, 09:02:39 PM »

Let me try this again...last night I spent 45 min. typing a response to the various comments, and when I finally hit the POST button...$#@*! Server Not Found! Locked up!

Capt. Jas., I have thought about your statement about someone NEEDING a high comb and am not sure what that actually means. I think it goes back to the gun that was too short and didn't fit you, so you built up the comb and added a butt extension or something. Now that doesn't mean a person needs a hi comb on all guns, just that one. If a particular gun has too little drop at the heel he might need a shorter comb, and I have seen some that were actually cut down drastically for that shooter. That is what happens when you buy a factory built or a lot of the pre-carved kit stocks that are rather generic. It may "kinda" fit 6 outta 10 guys if lucky, but 4 are gonna be very disapointed.
Now all the variable dimensions you mention in your design consideration sound very thoughtful and you could probably build the perfect rifle if you could accomplish all of those factors in one rifle or smoothie. Sounds like it will look like a Schutzen or Olympic rifle. Or you may need a perchbelly or stepped wrist to accomplish it, spoiling the true architecture. I'm just trying to build a longrifle with the classic lines of the originals....that fits the new owner or me. NOT saying all these dimensions are bad, but not all that neccesary on a traditional longrifle. This t-s, while far from perfect will get you....not just in the ball park but right on the pitchers mound! Sometimes simpler is better. I have used this to build guns for a variety of guys from 5'-2" to 6'-8"(my son) from fat to skinny, and all have been happy with the fit.
Now I can envision how to make the comb adjustable, but so far it hasn't been an issue. I know some guys will obcess over these thing and that's fine if you want to.
This just gives you a chance to try different drop/pull combination until you find one that is comfortable. If you plan to use your gun for hunting in the winter, you will want to try it with a heavy coat & sweaters on so you don't end up with a pull too long to reach. Makes a big difference.
I will probably build another someday with a Roman nose profile just to see what happens. I have built a couple Bedfords and a Haga/Reading style with it and they fit fine too.

I would like to know if there is a mathematical formula so I don't need this apperatus. I have heard wispered hints of such, but so far it must be guarded by the Free Masons or Knights Templar.
I'll bet JerrywH knows!

J.D. · « **Reply #17 on:** January 24, 2009, 04:29:05 AM »

Thanks Tom, I am in the process of making a try stock of a 2X2 and a coupla 1X6s glued together. I will incorporate your adjustable butt stock for LOP too.

All in all, your try stock is a pretty nifty tool.

Thanks for sharing.
J.D.

t.caster · « **Reply #18 on:** January 24, 2009, 06:53:21 PM »

J.D. I am glad a couple people like it but I sense by the huge silence on this thread since I posted pics that maybe some of the well known builders are miffed by my presenting trade secrets to the common folk. Or .....maybe they are all busy building there own now!
I wish I knew......

How do others attain a good fit? I know a good number of gunsmiths who have a customer pull up every gun in there collection until they find one that fits! Seems kinda hit or miss, and they probably end up making a compromise between this and that.
Anyway, this was just a humble woodbutchers attempt to do right by others.

J.D. · « **Reply #19 on:** January 24, 2009, 08:25:36 PM »

Quote from: t.caster on January 24, 2009, 06:53:21 PM

J.D. I am glad a couple people like it but I sense by the huge silence on this thread since I posted pics that maybe some of the well known builders are miffed by my presenting trade secrets to the common folk. Or .....maybe they are all busy building there own now!
I wish I knew......

Or, everyone is in awe of your creative answer to a problem of how to fit a gun to a client.

James Rogers · « **Reply #20 on:** January 24, 2009, 08:31:27 PM »

I appreciate you showing your version of the try-stock for all to see. It seems like a workable tool for you and your customers and just the ticket for getting a rifle closer matched to the shooter.
I can't see anyone being miffed becuse you posted it. It is a common tool in shotgunning circles and has been around for longer than anyone reading or posting on this board.

t.caster · « **Reply #21 on:** January 25, 2009, 05:56:01 PM »

JD, yeah that's it ....Shock and Awe! I guess I gotta lighten up some.

Capt. Jas. I have heard of the shotgun trystocks but NEVER saw one, so I tried to imagine a couple of the simplest and likely the most important adjustments that would be easy enough for me to build. I have a mechanical design background but I am NOT a machinist. Wish I was though.

If anyone has a real shotgun fitting stock or pictures, I would love to see it. I am sure others would too.

James Rogers · « **Reply #22 on:** January 25, 2009, 06:46:43 PM »

Tom,

I know I have pictures here somwhere but don't own one. I will see if I can find them and scan them in. I think they will be B&W though.

Most I have actually seen have a multi hinged affair in the wrist. The drops are adjusted in the middle of the wrist if I remember correctly and the cast hinge is just ahead of the nose of comb.

The LOP is in the butt like yours. The stock itself is hinged about 2/3 of the way back to the butt to adjust pitch.
A pitch adjustment would be a very good addition when moving the wrist up and down for comb height as the pitch changes every time the hinge moves.

James

Dave B · « **Reply #23 on:** January 26, 2009, 01:09:25 AM »

Tom,
Thanks for posting the pics. I have toyed around with this Idea but only got as far as doing the same pins in the butt of a pellet rifle so the short shooters of the family could shoulder the rifle. I think that simple is best when looking at this stuff. The beauty of what you have here is that for this style of rifle youve got exactly the patern that fits them. I would think I would make my self one of these for each school of building to be able to get the pattern to match the person. I have heard that the roman nosed butt stocks have a tendancy to be a bear to shoot but they look great. Using your design It would be no problem to tweek the fit then there is no question about what its going to fit like.
I have an old precarve out in the shop that is begging to be made into a try stock now that I have seen this. Its and old TOW Edward Marsal stock in walnut. Would you happen to have a D weight transitional barrel in wood laying around? What kind of wood did you make the barrel from?

t.caster · « **Reply #24 on:** January 26, 2009, 05:48:44 PM »

Dave B, I don't know if I would use that Marshall stock for a t-s due to the massive size of it, it would be OK for other Marshall or Jaeger projects, but not real good for the typical longrifle. I am building a .58 Marshall right now and it is a BIG BOY!
My wooden barrel is IRONWOOD of course! Nah, it's just a scrap 2x2 lumber. Not swamped, thank God!

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Author Topic: Any of us using a "Fitting Stock" (Read 12949 times)

roundball

Greg Field

J.D.

J.D.

J.D.