Re-building an Uberti Hawken

[anj4de]

Hello everybody

Not sure if this belongs here or into another section, so admins, please move if it's out of place...

I recently bought another Uberti Hawken after the first one I had way back when was sold in the early 90ties to fund another musket. I always wanted to have another Hawken and also was looking at a practice piece to get back into wood working a bit more. Mid term I want to build a Southern Mountain rifle from a kit, so working on a relatively cheap piece first I thought was a good idea. In the long run a custom, me-build, Hawken is also on the wish list.
When the Uberti gun arrived I was painfully reminded on my old one, as this one was a lost worse then the first one I had. The metal parts were quite ok but the woodwork...well, sloppy to say the least. On Saturday I made a run over to a large flee market here in Munich and I ended up with a bag of new files and rasps and after having a "Weißbier" in the evening I took off...
I started with refining the cheel piece to a more rounded apperance. Next I made approached the lock area, first only with a rough idea but eventually by making a paper pattern and transfering it to both sides of the stock. Meanwhile I have also adjusted the front part of the stock, it was a lot thicker and deeper at the entry point of the rammer then in th eback near the lock and trigger guard. All in all I have so spend about 8-9hours just carving, rasping and filing.
What I found out along the way was that the stock as it is right now is way too long for me, it currently has almost 15 inches of pull. I will cut that down by one inch hopefully this afternoon. Unfortunately this will throw the style ballance of the stock a bit off center, I think I will have to re-do the cheek piece as well to get back to the apperance that most Hawkens I have pictures from have. Here ar some pics of the project...


















The last picture shows one of the issues the Italian stock has, the tang was not let in exactly along the midle line of the rifle. There is no fix to this so I think I will try to hide that a bit by applying a rather dark brown finish, almost like some Southen Montain rifles, to the stock. So far it has been great fun to work on this project, it's so much different from what I do to make a living. So now please go ahaed and give me feedback and criticize what's wrong. This is meant first and foremost as a training piece but if it still comes out nicely...even better. I am looking forward to comments...

thanks
Uwe

[alyce-james]

UWE; Sir, Progress looks good. Please post when completed. Have a great day. AJ. 

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

You're off to a good start.  One important thing you've missed is the forarm where it meets the barrel. It should come to almost a knife edge at the barrel channel.  this will go a long way toward eliminating the slab sided effect of the commercial stock.

[Topknot]

Looking good! Shaping up real fine. (pun intended)

                                                            topknot

[anj4de]

You're off to a good start.  One important thing you've missed is the forarm where it meets the barrel. It should come to almost a knife edge at the barrel channel.  this will go a long way toward eliminating the slab sided effect of the commercial stock.

Thanks for pointing that out, I will work on the forarm again. This afternoon I cut the stock down by one inch to now 14 inches of pull. Now it's very comfortable. This was the first time I did such an operation and it was so far the most difficult part of the game. The sawing was done by an old carpenter with a professional band saw. Inletting the butt plate on the top was not too difficult but getting the curve done was very hard...and I messed up a bit there. I will leave it as is now since i am afraid of making things even worse. A question on the cheek piece...shall I move it forward a bit to reestablish the geometry I had before...maybe moving the round 1/2 inch forward. I was looking at a lot of modern Hawken cheek pieces lately and found also some were the cheek is rather big. Unfortunately there aren't many pictures around of original Hawkens photographed from the left side. I only have pics of the Brigger and the Carson gun's left sides.





The brown/gray color comes from a little vinegar experiment, since the stock is not finally sanded yet it will go away again.

[PPatch]

Buttplate looks GOOD. Keep at the rifle it is improving.

dp

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

You've done a good job shortening the stock, and re-inletting the butt plate.

To improve the cheek piece, two things are apparent to me, anyway.  First, you could round off the back edge of the cheek piece so that it does not terminate at the comb so perpendicular.  In other words, make an arc that follows the back curve until it points forward again - toward the muzzle.  Secondly, The stock at the top of that arc should be the same thickness from the centre line of the butt, as it is on the lock side.  To put it another way, there should not be extra wood on the cheek piece where it joins the comb line.  As well, cheek pieces on Hawken rifles are often very thin - not much above the surface of the rest of the stock.  Many contemp0orary builders, myself included, have a tendrncy to make the cheek piece to fat, when in fact it needs only be less than 3/8" above the stock surface at its highest point.  I'll see if I can find some pics to illustrate these points a little better.




This photo illustrates the way the back arc of the cheek piece returns toward the muzzle, and how the wood at the comb is cut away.
It also shows a cheek piece that is twice as thick as it should be.  I found out after I finished my rifle, that the original's cheek piece was only about 5/16" off the ground of the butt stock...no fat wood at all.

[Herb]

What a great job on shortening that stock!  Here is the Bridger Hawken wrist and cheek piece (and my copy) and the back of the Bridger cheek piece showing how much to move yours forward.

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[B Shipman]

A good project. Do what Taylor says and you"ll have a vastly better gun.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Herb, an excellent reply and two great examples.  I've just received an email from Mike L. of this site, with several images of original Hawken rifles that will add to this thread immeasurably.  There are three different Hawken rifles here:  the one that I tried to copy, a monster with a 40 1/2"  barrel, 58 1/8" OAL and 14 1/4" LOP, and a Gemmer/Hawken.  But all three illustrate the cheek piece treatment, and I can see that I may have been premature in describing the cheek piece as so 'thin'.  The second rifle here, and the Gemmer rifle, both have much heavier cheek pieces.  This goes to show that there is much variation and diversity, even within a small and particular style.  Enough blab, here's the rifles...





Here's two of the Gemmer/Hawken

[anj4de]

Hello again...

Great pictures, thanks a lot! This will make building a correct gun soo much easier 
I have been digging around and also found an original Hawken that shows the cheek piece. It was for sale in an auction, not sure how much it went for.





I have started working on my cheek piece again, I will post pictures once I am at a stage where it becomes presentable.

thanks a lot
Uwe

[Dan'l 1946]

Taylor and Herb- Thanks for posting these photographs. Hawken equals perfection in a percussion rifle! Herb, the finish on your Bridger rifle is wonderful. Could you tell us how you did it?
                                 Dan

[Herb]

Dan'l, Jim Bridger's rifle was at the Green River Rifle Works from November, 1975 for several years.   I handled it in February or March 1978 and I remember when Greg Roberts, the production manager, put it in his car to take it back to Helena.   Doc White there told me the stock was not stained but was varnished.  I tried to stain varnish with Fiebing's leather dye, but the color was too thin.  Then I used straight leather dye on the stock, which worked perfectly.  I thought it was Fiebings leather dye, but when I recently touched up my wear spots to match the original, Fiebings was way too red.  Lincoln leather dye matched perfectly, so maybe that is what I used to start with.  I skipped the worn sports but steel-wooled the stained edges to match the wear.  The worn spots I stained with Laurel Mountain Forge Lancaster Maple.  I did not put any finish over the stains, wanting to wear the stock with handling.  The color match is so close that when those two rifles were on the table, sometimes I wasn't sure which was mine.  That wasn't my skill, it is just how it turned out.

[anj4de]

Hello

I made some progress on my stock...I think/hope it's now in it's final shape. I am toying with the idea of putting either and 8 pointed star of a "man in the moon" in silver into the cheek piece to give the gun a certain personallazed appearance. I am not sure yet what product to use to finish the stock. The iron/vinegar mix I have on there is quite dark brown as I wanted it. A test on another piece of wood showed that after oiling this is comes out rather nicely. I will also start working on the metal parts next week, browning solution is on order already.  Here are some pictures...

[anj4de]

The stock is done so far...all nice and thin around the front and the cheek was reduced to match the shortened stock. The next thing will be an inlet in the cheek, I was thinking of either an 8 pointed star or a man in the moon? Recommendations welcome...
For obvious reasons discussed elsewhere buying precut inlays is out of question...so I bought a jeweler's saw and ordered German silver material. Now the question about the shape of the star. Are there specific star shapes that would be best suited or others that would not be suited at all? Also, centers screw or pins in the corners...the original S-Hawken a bit further up here has a pinned one but the shape I find not too nice.
Alternatively the "man in the moon", I like that type of inlay very much but have not seen a lot of usage of it yet. If this gets picked, would it be best placed in the cheek facing down or behind facing front/back?
I have also ordered two more Wilson books...I already have the one about Colt revolvers which does not help here, and am looking forward to getting more ideas for my "practicing piece" here.




thanks
Uwe

[J.D.]

Herb, an excellent reply and two great examples.  I've just received an email from Mike L. of this site, with several images of original Hawken rifles that will add to this thread immeasurably.  There are three different Hawken rifles here:  the one that I tried to copy, a monster with a 40 1/2"  barrel, 58 1/8" OAL and 14 1/4" LOP, and a Gemmer/Hawken.  But all three illustrate the cheek piece treatment, and I can see that I may have been premature in describing the cheek piece as so 'thin'.  The second rifle here, and the Gemmer rifle, both have much heavier cheek pieces.  This goes to show that there is much variation and diversity, even within a small and particular style.  Enough blab, here's the rifles...

The top gun, in the photo, shows how the butt thickens from the buttplate forward. Notice how the front of the lock panel is thicker at the front, than back.
I have always loved the architecture the Hawken brothers developed for their guns.  Never a straight line, and tapers  and thickness in all the right places. Good stuff.

P.S. Does the forend taper, slightly,  in thickness, from the lock panels to the end of the forestock?

[Herb]

The tracing of Jim Bridger's rifle from the GRRW does not show the side thickness of the forend.  But yes, it does taper.  Measuring my copy, this is what I got: with a 1 1/8" barrel, the lock adds the thickness of the bolster.  The same thickness is added to the left side, so my rifle is 1.706" across the panels just ahead of the snail, 1.752 at the front of the lock panels and 1.571 at the tail end of the lock panels.  The stock is 1.575 wide ahead of the lock panels, 1.650 across the rear key (the head and end stick out a little) and 1.637 across the front key.  The stock then tapers down to the nose cap, which is 1.412 at the back edge.

[anj4de]

Hello all

A little upgrade...

I have started playing around with browning some of the parts but have not found the 100% solution yet, I am also not really sure what I want yet, either a arther new look or maybe more a worn one? Good thing about metal, you can sand/polish it again if you do not like a finish without having to be afraid that you wind up loosing too much material.
I have also now received a jeweler's saw and some German Silver pieces, 1mm thick. I am now searching for a nice inlay design for the stock and I so far have two options that I kind of like best. 1.; an 8-pointed star, the design is not quite set yet or...2.; A combination of a man in the moon and a single smaller 5 pointed star. This I have seen on a John Bergmann rifle in the TOW archives. Or maybe something different all together? I am really not sure here and I know it's also a question of taste, I just want to avoid ending up with something really cheesy that on top of it would also be period incorrect. So, please let me know your thoughts...

thanks
Uwe




a bit over the top I think...

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I rather like the moon and star on the cheek piece design.

[bgf]

I rather like the moon and star on the cheek piece design.

Me too -- looks right.  Even if it were over the top, I think this type of project is perfect to go a little over the top on if you want.  There are originals from all over the country with over-the-top touches...maybe not the ones we emulate all the time, but why not occasionally have some fun !

[Bob Roller]

What is period incorrect may be a farce like an 1851 Colt Navy pistol
with a reproduction cylinder engraved with an aircraft carrier with a
group of helicopters on the flight deck.I saw this many years ago and
thought it was humorous.

Bob Roller