The wisdom of the closed, exclusive Kentucky Rifle Show

[Hurricane ( of Virginia)]

We'll understood from the perspective of security but challenging for the survival of the collector , students, the interest of youth who might have or develop the passion and the fine arts community. Please add your comments.
Hurricane

[Hurricane ( of Virginia)]

The wonderful exhibits of the Kentucky Rifle Foundation should be recognized and can it be furthered in other ways. They sponsor books and create CDs/DVDs but most often accessed by a very limited audience. Recent wonderful books covering very important aspects of the Kentucky rifle selling less than a few thousand copies.
Hurricane

[WadePatton]

I suppose when books and professionally produced videos where the only way to access such things, outside of actual show/exhibit attendance, then there were "profit avenues" to protect.

That is not the world today.  If one cannot search it up or find it somewhere on this web, then the exercise becomes a bit primitive and only those of deep devotion will continue to attempt to learn/expand their knowledge of the subject.

Appears to be a self-blood-letting from my angle.

That what would really benefit the book publishers and hall/booth renters, traders, preservationalists and contemporary makers all, would be more exposure (since exposure to the entire world is practically free now) such that a wider range of individuals might become interested and participate.

Personally I have learned to just ignore the guns i can't readily access.  There's enough to learn without seeing every single specimen.  

I hope things "open up" someday-for the sake of new blood/students, and better understanding/preservation/sharing.  Let the cult out of the cubby-hole.

And thanks to all who have sent me photos of "private" guns.  

[jdm]

Most of the mini shows are closed to the general public. That doesn't bother me that much but can  see where others may be.  I am not wild about people with no knowledge of the subject or any idea of the value of the items wondering around picking up things. There can be items of great value at these shows. Most owners I know are more than willing to let some on pick them up and examine them ,when asked . For security they just like to know the person was welcome by someone or knows someone there. That being said it is easy to get in an see these shows . Most of the sponsors of them are members of this site.Some advertise on this site when a show is coming up. All you have to do is contact them and ask and you will be welcome. I have found that these small shows are filled with friendly and knowledgeable  people who are willing to share with others. They offer an opportunity for some to see an hold originals they may other wise never get to see.

[Tanselman]

I am always a little dismayed when we start this type of discussion regarding the KRA. People who are not members, or members who do not fully understand why/how the KRA operates, invariably end up publically criticizing the organization due to its operating procedures, particularly its closed shows. The prior post by JDM has moderated the anti-KRA sentiment, but more should be said of the organization. The primary reason for the controlled access to shows is the extreme value of some items put on display by their owners. When a 100K gun is brought out for display, the owner wants a level of security for both his rifle, and his privacy and future security. Without the promise of security, most of those fine rifles would NOT be offered for display, at the KRA or elsewhere. The KRA is a group of advanced collectors that want, and need, security for their collections. They do not want un-vetted strangers handling their rifles without permission or knowing who the owners are...since once names are known, addresses can almost always be found on the internet and rifles stolen by an enterprising thief. The value of guns on display at the KRA is simply not comparable to the average gun show, and therefore security and protection of owners' personal/private information is not comparable and must be more protected.

Virtually all collecting fields have their levels of collectors, from beginners to advanced. Generally, collectors most enjoy talking with others with somewhat comparable levels of expertise. However, the vast majority of KRA members are normal people who will talk with anyone interested in the old rifles...and enjoy doing so. You can always find an exception if you look long and hard enough, but when you begin to think that exception represents the entire group, you probably have an agenda to push. The KRA does public displays and education through the KRA Foundation so that non-KRA members can learn more about the history of the Kentucky rifle...more so than any other organization.

Two final points deserve comments:
1.  Most of the publications by KRA members are very specific, high cost books that the average collector will not purchase...unless he happens to have one of his guns illustrated or mentioned in the book. Marketing those books to the average American has very little payback. Authors target them to the advanced collectors who will pay the high price for the knowledge the books offer...which becomes the KRA, CLA, Horner's Guild, etc., and their splinter shows.  It is not worth most author's time to attend other shows where sales do not cover expenses. Most books are listed on web sites where anyone can purchase them...so sales are not restricted, just marketed/targeted to where realistic levels of sales will most likely occur. Printings are limited simply because sales are limited on these books due to price, so they do not lend themselves to being wholesaled to Borders, Amazon.com, or the like.
2.  Available Kentucky rifle information - anyone who thinks the KRA is somehow limiting access to most Americans on knowledge of Kentucky rifles due to their high priced books that are not on Amazon.com is mistaken and overlooking the obvious...many good books on the subject are readily available on Ebay and other web sites dealing with vintage American rifles and related books. Beginning, intermediate, and even advanced collector can find a large number of different books (most well illustrated) to meet whatever level or regional interest he/she may have in early American rifles...and at a cost they can afford. Perhaps the most recently released books will not show up on Ebay or on other used books sites for a year or two...but they will. But many good, educational books, better suited for the beginning and intermediate Kentucky rifle collector, are easily available on America's no. 1 shopping place...Ebay. Anyone who cannot get well educated on the American longrifle is simply not trying very hard.

I suggest we temper these discussions and recognize the value of the KRA in promoting and preserving our old longrifles, its great willingness to accept new members who have demonstrated a sincere interest in the old guns, and the good works its Foundation and members have done, and continue to do, in researching, publishing on, and promoting the history of the Kentucky rifle for all of us.

Shelby Gallien

[WadePatton]

I was not criticizing anything but speaking with reference to the trade-type shows where most of the work on display is custom fitted and built to order as well as suppliers for the folks that build the things.  Historic replication is not a major factor there.  

The WWW photo-sharing helps drive a huge following and huge attendance where-ever the show is held.  That show moves from city to city each year.  Where "huge" is relative to the actual number of folks who are customers of the exhibitors.  

That the web and free-exchange of photographs and information feed more interest in more people and fuels more of a future for such things.

So it's probably an apple/orange thing.  Except for the fact that some collection of like-minded individuals are actually making a living wage from making the products and services displayed/celebrated at the "other" show.  I hope that some contemporary gun builders and their suppliers are actually able to do such.  

I'm out.  pardon me if i stepped on toes.

[spgordon]

Mr. Gallien's remarks make excellent sense if the highest ambitions of the KRA/KRF is to enable collectors to talk to other collectors. If the KRA/KRF aims to make its research available to those who are not collectors--to historians of early America, historians of material culture, art historians, etc., and so to benefit from the research they will do as a result--some different thinking may be necessary.

It is simply not true that "anyone who cannot get well educated on the American longrifle is simply not trying very hard." Most, perhaps even nearly all, the published research on the American longrifle is unavailable in libraries, through interlibrary loan, or through the internet. As I wrote on a different thread, article length research--in Muzzle Blasts, in KRA Bulletin, etc.--is not available as research in many collecting fields is, especially those fields that, while they may have begun as a conversation between collectors, have become something more. The books published by Shumway, by the KRF, by Patrick Hornberger, which contain amazing research, are very expensive, even when they show up years later on eBay, and researchers in the fields I've mentioned above do not do their work by buying $75 books that they will consult once or twice.

Somebody who wants to "get well educated on the American longrifle," that is, under current circumstances will need to have available to him (or her) substantial financial resources. Again, this makes perfect sense if what we're really talking about is a field in which high-end collectors are content to talk to other high-end collectors.

I will only add, by way of conclusion, that I am a member of KRA; I am not a collector of rifles; and I have purchased every book by Shumway, KRA, and Hornberger that is available for purchase. I've used all this research in my own work and hopefully my published writings will, some day, influence or help other researchers. I am just saying that if collectors and collectors-who-research the American longrifle want to engage an audience beyond other collectors, something needs to be done to make the research more widely accessible. (I haven't made any comments about the exclusivity of KRA shows themselves because I haven't given that much thought.)

Scott

[HIB]

Gentlemen,  And now for the rest of the story; the part that most are missing.

The only single 'Members Only' show sanctioned by the KRA is their annual meeting. That's it. Period. End of story with regards to the KRA.

All the shows put on and developed by either CLA members, KRA members and/or those who are members of both organizations do so independent of rights granted by the KRA. The key word here is 'Independent'. I believe the CLA operates in the same manner. Take your closed show argument to the developers of these 'Independent' long rifle shows and you may or may not get the response you are looking for.

However, I would like to point out I have never been turned down by an 'Independent' show operator when I have sought admission for an 'old interested person' or 'interested new guy' on the block. Granted, I, like any other collector will want to know a few things about the individual we are willing to go to bat for before we make the attempt. Common sense applies.

There is one other thing some people fail to recognize; The Kentucky Rifle Foundation [KRF] is a totally independent 501 [C] [3] organization.  Considered the educational arm of the KRA it is a completely separate entity, has its own set of by-laws, its own seal, bank accounts and its own board of directors and its own officers. It is common to mix the two together but it is not proper to do so.

If the moderators decide to continue with this topic I only have one request of the ALR membership; please direct your future posts to the group you wish to address. The 'Independent' show promoters, The KRF itself, The KRA or the CLA. Its not fair to bunch them all into one bag.

Regards, HIB

[WElliott]

Gentlemen,
To HIB's point- as the producer of one of the "mini-shows", I hereby invite each and every participant in ALR who is interested in learning more about longrifles and being exposed to early longrifles, to attend the Tennessee-Kentucky Rifle Show, which will be held April 11-12, 2014, at the Museum of Appalachia above Knoxville, Tennessee.  More information will be posted on ALR in the months to come.  No one who participates on the ALR site and , thus, is interested in the longrifle is excluded from attending.  All are invited.  Admission is only $10.  For $20, we throw in a great BBQ dinner.  You don't have to own a longrifle or be a "member" to attend this show.  There are similar smaller shows located around the eastern part of the country.  Our motivation, just as that of the KRA, is educational and fraternal, not profit or discrimination.  Check the ALR website for regular listings of "mini" shows to which you are all invited.

As to what I regard as unwarranted attacks on the KRA and KRF, I could not agree more with the above responses by my friends Tanselman and HIB.  If the publication of quality longrifle books was profitable, commercial publishers would be jumping at the opportunity to publish such works. They are not.  The role the Kentucky Rifle Foundation has filled, with no profit motive, is very valuable to the long term growth of longrifle collecting.  The KRA has a website, developed and maintained by volunteers, which is intended to educate and to draw attention to the American longrifle. The goal and role of the Kentucky Rifle Foundation is to increase public awareness of the importance of the longrifle in American history. 

[Hurricane ( of Virginia)]

I started this and am happy to accept the responsibility: Bad and good. My purpose was to start a discssion ( which it did) not to target any group. The fact is that many who visit here are aging ( and ceratinly at the closed shows....amongst the  youngest we could identify in Front Royal,VA  was a 62  year old when the room was full ... perhaps 100...on Friday after noon) and new younger interested people are rare. Friendly conversation often reveals little interest amongst the children of the collectors. Other "fine arts" venues and collections seem to find and allow more public awareness and exhibition. Certainly not hands on in most cases but open public access carefully planned  ( I believe the KRF exhibits to be amongst them...seen in Lurey by thousands). Without them  and new thinking about  the subject there is and will remain a very small number ( x/ 350,000,000= .0000000000000000000000001%) who will ever see much less want, study and collect.  It should not take "money" to appreciate fine art.....few of us will ever own a painting by a master or a Feberge egg or the Royal jewels but boy are there majestic and known throughout the world. Many Kentucky RIfle masters equalled their artistic skill and presentation ( See Dave Hansens new book).  For those whose interest is monetary...who will buy your fine "Kentucky Rifle art" if "they" are unable or unwilling to buy the fine books recently published and certainly not if they never see one or even know of them.. ? One recently published book, I understand , has sold 1300 copies.  We may need to think "outside the box" as well as inside? Hope the discussion continues. I for one have benefited from your points. I personally will try to make the Kentucky rifle a rival of the other widely appreciated American art forms! Others please join me.
Hurricane

[Mark Elliott]

Hey!  I was at the Front Royal show from beginning to end and I am only 51 (although, I frequently feel much older  )   I am also pretty sure that I wasn't the youngest exhibitor/vendor or visitor there.   I am at all the Virginia KRA/CLA shows and a few outside the state, either as an exhibitor/vendor or as a photographer for one of the associated organizations.   

I am not a KRA member (although I do belong to the CLA, HCH, NMLRA, NRA, and ALR to name but a few   )  either, but the show producers allow me to hang around and try to make a buck or two.    I have been insinuating myself into the collecting and building community since I was about 12 years old and buying books since then as well as checking a lot of local libraries.   It still buy all the books and CDs that I can, even if I don't have a rifle in them.  I agree with the person who said if you can't find out what you need to know about longrifles, you aren't trying very hard.    Just by virtue of my interest,  I have been invited to study some of the best longrifles around.   Collectors like to share their collections with people they feel they can trust.   I understand that. 

The only real protection you have is to keep a low profile.   I am not generally very specific about what I do with strangers, and I am very careful about letting people into my office or shop.   I am that way, and I have way less to loose than most of the collectors in the KRA.   I think closed shows are a reasonable security precaution.   

You can always take your stuff to one of the gun shows open to the general public.   I do that every once in a while, but it is generally a waste of time.    It think a better way to reach the people outside our community who might have a interest is to have a presence at one of the historic festivals or events that many communities hold.   Of course,  you wouldn't want to take anything high value there, but that is not the purpose anyway.   

 

[Mark Elliott]

There was an allusion to the small size of our community with regard to the numbers sold of a recently published book.   I would like to point out that there are currently 2330 members of this forum.    This forum is accessible world wide with little or no barriers to membership and a Google search for "longrifle" puts this site on the first page.   The bottom line is that there just aren't those many people interested in this topic, and by virtue of that fact, no real money to be made related to it.  That is why books and CDs are expensive.   It costs a small fortune to print a book with high quality color photos.   Even printing 2000-2500, you have to sell them at the prices we see just to break even.   No one makes much money with anything associated with longrifles, antique or contemporary.   There just are not a lot of people interested.    We do what we do because we love them.  We just have to bring in enough new people to make sure that guns don't end up abused or in the land fill.   Stewardship of the works of art and knowledge surrounding them should be our primary goal.   None of us are here that long and both the guns and knowledge are our very temporary possessions.   I think that we need to think in terms of bringing people into the hobby one at a time and be satisfied with that; but we ALL need to make it a priority to find a person to take our place.   If you can do that, you have probably done about the best you can.   A lot of people have helped me over the years.   Now, I need to make a concerted effort to help others and find a replacement for myself, not that I would be missed all that much.   

[HIB]

Mark,  A very profound [marked by intellectual depth] statement and one I can support 100%. Regards, HIB

[spgordon]

I don't see anything in this thread that could possibly have been meant as an "attack" on the KRF or KRA, and I certainly hope nothing I wrote was misread in that way. If any new or different idea is misread as an "attack," we might as well give up on discussion altogether.

If longrifle books are selling 1300-2000 copies, they are doing very well and there is no reason they should not be making a profit for their publishers. (I realize they have far more high-quality color images than most books.) Academic books--books published by university presses--routinely sell only about 300-400 copies, and those are sold largely to university libraries. (It is an odd system, perpetuated because of the demand that professors publish books to earn tenure, but while a few university presses have closed up shop many persist and many make a profit.) Indeed, many, many titles sell less than 300 copies. And yet these studies are used over time by many more than this.

Mark Elliott wrote that "stewardship of the works of art and knowledge surrounding them should be our primary goal": it seems at present that the demands of the first goal are crippling the achievement of the second goal. The "field" will not develop new knowledge--or it will develop far less than it might--if it involves (primarily) gun collectors talking to each other. You need historians of early America, museum curators, art historians, etc., researching and writing about these objects as well. Only such individuals outside the collecting field can bring the new contexts and perspectives and knowledge that will produce new and original information about these objects that we all value so much.

Scott

[WElliott]

Mark, thank you for your contribution to the discussion.  Your points are well put.

It seems to me that there are two changes in American society that have contributed to less knowledge about, or even awareness of, the American longrifle.  As a child of the 1940s and 50s, I rarely saw a longrifle and was never invited to play with a high-end collector's treasure.  However, I was taught American history, I was taught to shoot and handle firearms, and I had a growing interest in their place in American history.  My father, who was not a collector but who had an interest and knowledge of American history, took me to the Southeastern Arms Collectors shows in Atlanta where, occasionally, there would be a longrifle to view.  From watching Davy Crockett after we got a black and white TV, I knew what a longrifle was.  The first arms I collected, as a young teen, were an 1841 Mississippi, a .45-70 Springfield and a '73 Winchester.  I was in my early 30s before I acquired my first longrifle.  At that point, I had never seen anyone's collection and had never been to a show which focused on longrifles.  But the history seed had been planted.

Two of those elements are missing in most young people's lives today:  learning American history and the presence of a father or a father figure who will take the time to teach and develop a youngster.  We now have at least two generations who have almost no knowledge of American history or frontier life.  Yet, there are ample opportunities around us to see and learn of that life.  I welcome the opportunity to share what little knowledge I have and to share my little collection with anyone who is willing to stop and listen.  That is not unique to me at all- I think most KRA members feel the same way. 

[Mark Elliott]

Wayne,

You speak of your father and American History, and I have also spoken of these things before in connection with my interest in longrifles.   I also had an interest in history and art that was supported and cultivated by my father because he was also interested in those things.    We spent a lot of Sunday afternoons (after church) going to historic sites,  mainly walks around battle fields.   My father also took me to the monthly Virginia Arms Collectors Association meetings and shows and became a member for me.  He also joined a range for me.   He did whatever he could to support my constructive interests.   He was also an older father, he was 35 when I was born.   I think that made a difference.   I am just struck by the importance that both of us can place on the support of our fathers in our interests in longrifles.   I still miss my father very much.  He has been gone 16 years now.  He was as good a man as any could be.   

Mark
   

[Shreckmeister]

Here in western PA, when I was young it was something of a tradition when you turned 11 or 12
to get a gun as a gift.  A right of passage of sorts.  I was given my grandfathers Winchester for my
11th birthday.  My son was given a Winchester by my father on his 11th birthday.  Then taught to shoot
and hunt.  I always enjoyed hunting and when I found out at age 48 that my family made longrifles, that was what peaked my interest.  I agree very much with Mark that each of us has a responsibility to take
at least 1 or more people under mentorship.  I thank the ALR, my KRA sponsors and some others for helping me along and plan to keep the fire burning.

[Mark Tyler]

A few observations.

I spent 8 hours at the Front Royal show on Friday and I'm 37. I have no problem with closed shows. If someone truly has an interest in antique Kentucky Rifles they will find a way to get their foot in the door. I did!

As pointed out above - the closed shows (such as the KRA and the "mini shows") bring out some of the best Kentucky Rifles extant in private collections. You typically don't see these high dollar pieces at the "open" shows. On the other hand, open shows have their good points also. Sometimes longrifle will walk in the door and can be purchased at an open show. Either way it takes a great deal of effort to promote and run a successful longrifle show. Kuddos to these individuals. 

It is my opinion if you want to promote collecting the Kentucky Rifle the best way is through educational exhibits, not shows. There have been several successful exhibits and a few more planned in the future. Here are several examples:

• Berks County Longrifles (Berks County Historical Society)
• Virginia Longrifle Exhibition - Luray Valley Museum (KRF)
• Lancaster Long Rifle Exhibit (Landis Valley)
• North Carolina Schools of Longrifle (High Point Museum)
• Maryland Longrifles - B&O Railroad Ellicott City Station (KRF)
• Huntingdon County Longrifles (Huntingdon Historical Society 2014)
• Masterpieces of the American Longrifle (Kindig Collection 2014)

Exhibits are attended to by a much broader audience. We need to keep up this work.

In addition to the exhibits, Kentucky Rifle displays (as often done by the KRF) at CLA shows, Dixons, NRA shows, Baltimore, etc. can spark interest among the collecting (and gun building) community.

At a more grassroots level, I encourage collectors to rent tables at local gun shows and display a their Kentucky Rifles. Give talks to historical and arms collecting societies. Setup at reenactments, field days, sportsmen clubs, NMLRA events, etc.

And finally be a mentor. I am constantly seeking help, advice and/or knowledge from a few "seasoned" collectors. It is much appreciated.




 

[nord]

At the risk of being taken to task for a long held opinion...

In previous posts I've attempted to clarify my opinion that closed shows have their merits. I have no quarrel with anyone or any organization holding a closed show. In fact it wouldn't make much sense for the KRA or the like to hold an open show at their annual meeting would it? And this goes for just about any organization! But in between closed meetings it might be of profit to create an environment where folks outside the closed "community" are encouraged to become interested and aspire to join said community. Otherwise it would seem that we'll be following the route of the Shakers.

Some have alluded to availability of literature and opportunities to learn about the Long Rifle. Certainly the KRA has contributed greatly to this cause as have many individuals. The expense of many publications? A factor, but not a major impediment in my opinion. It seems to me that we're sort of overlooking elementary education here in that it's very hard to become interested in a subject that is unknown to us. We must become aware of the fundamentals before we can develop an interest it would seem to me.

I believe what Fred and I are attempting to bring forth is the sad fact that many (perhaps a majority) are unaware of the Long Rifle, the artisans who built these pieces, their connection to history, the availability of these fine artworks, and their value. The sad fact is that the very facility hosting a closed show (KRA annual meeting for example) could be hosting a show of fine arts at the same time and the two ships would pass silently in the night without either really being aware of the other. Sad!

Lewisburg promoters having included "Artisan" in their title have begun to take things in the right direction. Their focus is inclusive of all aspects of folk art with the Long Rifle being a part of the show rather than the focus. And while moving in the right direction I would respectfully suggest that we in the Long Rifle community are still coming up short. Is there really all that much value in opening a room full of antique Long Rifles to the public without also offering a bit of context and background as to exactly what they're seeing?

Don't get me wrong here. For those of us who know about them, a room full of Long Rifles is almost heaven on earth. We can speak with each other about individual pieces, their quality, and their makers easily. We welcome families and feel great about exposing our antiques to the general public. But what do we really gain for the most part?

Dad and the kids see a lot of neat old rifles. A very few even connect them to memories of Boone or Crockett. Moms generally live through the ordeal. And when they leave our display room they know little more than when they entered. The same being true for visitors to the Smithsonian and other such entities. The displays are there of course. The problem is that the museum items are untouchable. Our problem is that while our rifles may not be untouchable, I sometimes feel that we aren't reaching out to the right crowd. And even when we reach out, we may well not be emphasizing the right things .

By this I certainly don't mean that we shouldn't display to mom, pop, and the kids! What I mean is that the folks who appreciate antique art and have the money and interest to make a purchase will happily purchase a period canvas or maybe a antique duck decoy without a second thought. Same for period clothing, manuscripts, or books. But these same folks if they even bother visiting the rifle room see nothing save for antique firearms.

I would argue that this is our problem. How do we get folks such as these to visit our displays not because they're neat old firearms, but because they're in many cases the flower of unique American artistry? How can we possibly expect anyone who dislikes firearms to appreciate and begin to value our antiques unless we convey to them that what they're seeing is fine art expressed in wood, steel, and brass that in many cases eclipse those who worked in the same period in other media?

So to compress this all too long post and distill it into its basics...

Is there any agreement to what I've shared above? If so, then how might it be best to present our version of unique American fine arts to a world either unaware, unappreciative, or even hostile toward firearms?
And while we're at it, who might be best to target?

Curt Johnson may have the key. (Perhaps better said one of the keys.)  PBS and firearms? Oil and water, except if presented not as firearms but as historical works of folk art. Perhaps if other "diplomats" such as Curt were to begin to concentrate in areas where fine arts are appreciated and where price is not so much an object to the goal of obtaining such we might advance our cause.

As always any thoughts or discussion is welcome.

[Majorjoel]

I have no problems with closed members only shows or meetings. In this realm of longrifle collecting, membership does have it's privileges. I will also add that anyone who has the desire to see, touch, and learn more about the subject will also have a desire to join such a group. In order to have such a desire, one first starts out with some sort of an appreciation to start with. It is a learning thing. Something that expands as we learn more about it.   I must give credit where credit is due. That would definitely be from membership on this forum.....the ALR.   From this platform the sky is the limit in many different directions of longrifle history and culture. A stepping stone where we all get our feet wet through questions and answers. A sharing ground of ideas and general thoughts. A place where friendships are made and common interests are kindled into greater things.  I would call the ALR the staging ground for all of the private member clubs. The get in the door off the street place that starts it all. From here, we all follow our interests. 

[Dennis Glazener]

I must give credit where credit is due. That would definitely be from membership on this forum.....the ALR.   From this platform the sky is the limit in many different directions of longrifle history and culture. A stepping stone where we all get our feet wet through questions and answers. A sharing ground of ideas and general thoughts. A place where friendships are made and common interests are kindled into greater things.  I would call the ALR the staging ground for all of the private member clubs. The get in the door off the street place that starts it all. From here, we all follow our interests. 

Thanks Joel, if your comments represent the majority of our members then ALR seems to be meeting its Mission Statement.
Dennis

[bama]

I am a relitively new KRA member, I am going on my 3rd year. I feel it has been an honor and a privilege to be a KRA member.

I have been a lover of the long rifle as long as I can remember but I have only recently became a collector. Collecting has opened a whole new world to me and has broadened my knowledge about the long rifle and its heritage. I am thankful to those that helped me become a KRA member. Thanks to them I have met new people that love the long rifle and have worked hard to presereve its heritage.

As a builder of contemprary long rifles being a KRA member has helped give me a better understanding of how the early rifles were built. Seeing the original rifles first hand I have learned more than I ever could from the pictures I had been studying.

I think we all here hold the KRA in the highest regards and only want it to continue and prosper for many years to come. Some of my earlier comments in the other thread stemed from comments made that the membership itself is advanced in age. I hope that nobody took any of my comments concerning ways to have younger blood infused into the KRA as me saying disparaging things about the KRA. Nothing could be father from my intent and I apologise to any that may have been offended.

I have made up my mind to do my best to bring the longrifle to the youth that I have availability to, instead of me trying to bring them to the long rifle. I have never met a youngster yet that their eyes did not light up when I drag out one of my long rifles to show them. They are all very inquisitive and ask numerous questions and always with a big smile. It is my hope that some day one of these youngsters will be a lover of the Long Rifle and maybe future KRA member.

[galamb]

If you can bear with me for a moment you will probably get the point I am trying to make.

I'm Canadian - grew up in Toronto. In the last few years the Canadian Football League (our version of the NFL) which is essentially broke has been trying to figure out how to generate interest in the sport - most Canadians who watch football spend Sunday watching the NFL.

Now it's not that I'm adverse to supporting Canadian sport but when I was a kid the CFL "shunned" me.

Anytime the stadium wasn't sold out (which was just about every game) the game was "blacked out" on TV. We didn't have cable or satellite back then so if it wasn't on the local station you had zero exposure to the sport - no home games, no games against Hamilton (which meant 2/3's of "ALL" games and the away games were 3 time zones away).

Zero exposure = Zero interest. I'm not going to buy a ticket to a game that I never get to see at any other time, because I don't even know what it really is that I would see if I did attend.

When you don't know what's there, who's involved - your not exposed to it you are not even aware of what it is you are missing out on - tough to develop an interest under those circumstances.

[PPatch]

Can anyone detail when, where and what long rifle collection has been stolen, say in the last 30-40 years.

dp

[JTR]

Can anyone detail when, where and what long rifle collection has been stolen, say in the last 30-40 years.

dp

Stolen guns, yes.
But why would you want to know that?

John