Author Topic: Building my first: A Lyman Great Plains Rifle 54cal Flintlock  (Read 39188 times)

BigJ

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Building my first: A Lyman Great Plains Rifle 54cal Flintlock
« on: October 28, 2013, 12:41:05 AM »
Hi all.  Well after much reading and learning and studying I've finally got up the courage to order my first rifle kit, a Lyman GPR.  I'm no stranger to working with my hands, small woodworing projects, or some minor metal work, and over the years I've rebuilt a couple dozen milsurps and worked on a handful of black powder rifles.  But I've never built one myself.  Sounds like a kit is a good first step, and the GPR in particular is a quality choice.

I'll try to keep this updated as I make progress, and I more than welcome any tips or tricks or suggestions or criticisms as we go.  Believe me, I know just enough to know I don't know anything, so please don't worry about bruising any egos here.  I just want to learn, hone my skills as I go and enjoy the process.

Anyway, just thought I'd introduce my project and say hello.  I look forward to continued learning thanks to you all! :)
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 12:45:38 AM by BigJ »

Offline WadePatton

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Re: Building my first: A Lyman Great Plains Rifle 54cal Flintlock
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2013, 06:27:08 PM »
Hello J

Show us what you're doing*.  Some of us have been building a first one for years.  Mine might be finished this week. I jumped in at the deep end:  no kit-from a blank, swamped bbl, but then I try to make everything as challenging as possible.  ;D

Enjoy the process.

*Photos here require remote hosting (put them online somewhere else, link to URL)
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Offline whitebear

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Re: Building my first: A Lyman Great Plains Rifle 54cal Flintlock
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2013, 04:38:43 AM »
Hello J

. I jumped in at the deep end:  no kit-from a blank, swamped bbl, but then I try to make everything as challenging as possible.  ;D

Enjoy the process.

*Photos here require remote hosting (put them online somewhere else, link to URL)

Man! talking about a glutton for punishment.
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Offline WadePatton

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Re: Building my first: A Lyman Great Plains Rifle 54cal Flintlock
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2013, 04:58:08 AM »
Hello J

. I jumped in at the deep end:  no kit-from a blank, swamped bbl, but then I try to make everything as challenging as possible.  ;D

Enjoy the process.

*Photos here require remote hosting (put them online somewhere else, link to URL)

Man! talking about a glutton for punishment.

it's a learning curve where you need rock-climbing gear (steep!).
Hold to the Wind

obsidian

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Re: Building my first: A Lyman Great Plains Rifle 54cal Flintlock
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2013, 05:58:59 AM »
Welcome BigJ from one beginner to another!  This forum is a wealth of information.  These guys helped me with a GPR that I redid not once but a second time as I learned more about what the old guns should look like.  I hope to kill a deer with my 54 soon and am getting all the fixins together for a French fusil with a walnut slab from my front yard.  Only advise-take your time, enjoy the process as it transforms into a fine piece and read, read, read!
Enjoy,
Rich

Offline RichG

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Re: Building my first: A Lyman Great Plains Rifle 54cal Flintlock
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2013, 06:57:14 AM »
there's been  a couple of people who have posted about building/rebuilding GPR"s on this site. If you haven't searched for them they could be of help. When I've built GPR's the most helpful thing for shootability is removing a good portion of the cheek piece so your eye will line up with the sights. Enjoy!

BigJ

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Re: Building my first: A Lyman Great Plains Rifle 54cal Flintlock
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2013, 06:02:42 AM »
Thanks guys!  I appreciate the warm welcome!

Funny thing is I can't wait to get started (been delayed during shipping; yay UPS!) but I fully intend to take my sweet time every step of the way.  I know it will be hard, but I'm looking forward to forcing myself to NOT rush this.  Gonna he hard :)

Thanks again and more to come!

Offline deano

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Re: Building my first: A Lyman Great Plains Rifle 54cal Flintlock
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2013, 04:40:44 PM »
Not hard work with a kit just a process, finish one step then move to the next as a learning and confidence building exercise. The worst mistake is usually leaving too much wood.

I think there is a great current post for a fellow re-doing another Italian Plains rifle...great pictures of originals as well as other re-dos already posted.

Offline WadePatton

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Re: Building my first: A Lyman Great Plains Rifle 54cal Flintlock
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2013, 11:52:54 PM »
Not hard ... The worst mistake is usually leaving too much wood...
difficulty is a function of handiness, experience, and willingness to learn.

I'd classify the "too much wood" not as a mistake but as a stylistic/architectural error which can be corrected by removing more wood.  

Once the wood is gone...well, then mistakes get worse!  :o ::) ;)

But mistakes teach error-correction procedures and those drive home the importance of methods and practices which should reduce errors in the first place.  Gotta make 'em to learn how to fix 'em, or when to "let it ride".  I'm doing a lot of all three.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 11:55:39 PM by WadePatton »
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BigJ

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Re: Building my first: A Lyman Great Plains Rifle 54cal Flintlock
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2013, 02:30:45 AM »
Welp, the kit arrived!  The bag o' parts exploded in the box, so I'll need to make sure I find everything that was in it, but everything else looks good to go.

Here are some unboxing pics:

















































First thing up (according to the instructions) is to draw file the barrel.  More to come when I get there.

BigJ

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Re: Building my first: A Lyman Great Plains Rifle 54cal Flintlock
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2013, 08:25:54 PM »
The first flat is done! 

I wiped off the factory protectant with acetone, applied Dykem (layout fluid) and then used a 2nd cut file to draw file the flat down, until all the blue was gone. 





This is the first time I've draw filed anything, so I took my time; all told including dry time for the Dykem, this took about 30 mins to complete.  I expect the same from the remaining sides.

Blue Dog

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Re: Building my first: A Lyman Great Plains Rifle 54cal Flintlock
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2013, 09:02:30 PM »
I talked to Muzzle Loaders Builder's Supply and they recommended the GPR kit as a first gun seeing these pictures have gotten me more in the mood to try one. Please keep me posted on your progress and problems you have As I have asked Mrs. Claus for one in my stocking.

Offline WadePatton

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Re: Building my first: A Lyman Great Plains Rifle 54cal Flintlock
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2013, 09:44:36 PM »
Wow, great pics.  I'd never seen a production kit-in the raw.  I had a p'cussin' TC rifle someone else assembled and I've played with a KY pistol a buddy assembled--complete with socket head cap-screws.   ::)

That looks like a day or two of fooling around* and bingo bango gun!

Here's a little hint for tight curvy metal work: chainsaw files.  ;)

*or two weeks depending on your wood and metal finishing approaches.  enjoy.
Hold to the Wind

BigJ

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Re: Building my first: A Lyman Great Plains Rifle 54cal Flintlock
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2013, 10:24:01 PM »
I talked to Muzzle Loaders Builder's Supply and they recommended the GPR kit as a first gun seeing these pictures have gotten me more in the mood to try one. Please keep me posted on your progress and problems you have As I have asked Mrs. Claus for one in my stocking.
I spent a while trying to figure out a good first kit and this one kept coming up on the radar.  Even though its incredibly basic by the standards set here on these forums, still its already pushing my current skill set and knowledge (or lack there of).  So far I'm really glad I went this way; its obvious to me that unlike many other kits I checked out, even if I totally jack this build up, I'd still have a functional firearm when done.  The downside seems minimal, and the upside seems pretty huge.

Wow, great pics.  I'd never seen a production kit-in the raw.  I had a p'cussin' TC rifle someone else assembled and I've played with a KY pistol a buddy assembled--complete with socket head cap-screws.   ::)

That looks like a day or two of fooling around* and bingo bango gun!

Here's a little hint for tight curvy metal work: chainsaw files.  ;)

*or two weeks depending on your wood and metal finishing approaches.  enjoy.
Thanks for the tip on the files!  I'll check 'em out :)

As for how long its going to take?  If I can keep my patience in check, I'm hoping for the "weeks" option.  I've got plenty of guns to shoot, but I've only got one to build.  This is all about the building and learning experience, and not about it actually going boom in a hurry.

One question for the experts that's already come up:  what flat files do you suggest?  I'm using your basic Home Depot set at the moment, and they're leaving me wanting.  I'm not against investing in a quality file/set, so what say you?  Thanks!
« Last Edit: November 06, 2013, 10:32:43 PM by BigJ »

Offline PPatch

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Re: Building my first: A Lyman Great Plains Rifle 54cal Flintlock
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2013, 11:03:52 PM »
Welcome to the forum BigJ - yeah, slow and sure is the ticket, no reason to rush just get it done in your own good time. Good job on the draw filing, keep those edges crisp just as you are doing. Remember to use a new part of the file for each "draw," and clean the file often so metal burrs don't scratch up the finish.

Files are such a problem these days due to ones limited choices for plain old ordinary ones, all of those Big Box store  files are generally below 3rd rate as you have discovered, they stop cutting very fast. I hope one of the fellows here can steer you to a source. I found some pretty decent ones at a local Ace hardware, store owner said they were american made but had no name stamp, said he bought them years ago as part of a large lot. The Nicholson files made in Brazil are OK (not great - avoid the ones made in Mexico), and will get the job done, for draw filing a larger Single-cut Bastard is what you need.  

Remember to have fun with your project - you only build a first rifle once...

dave

PS: your photography is excellent!
« Last Edit: November 06, 2013, 11:07:08 PM by PPatch »
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Meteorman

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Re: Building my first: A Lyman Great Plains Rifle 54cal Flintlock
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2013, 11:41:46 PM »
BJ - good files are where ya find 'em.    But no, Home Depot usually isn't one of those places.
Cruise eBay regularly, look for new old stock Nicholsons or Simonds 
My best luck has been at auctions, but that takes time and patience.
If ya do get some oldie but goodie ones that are showing some wear, google up Boggs Tool in California for their file sharpening service. It's pretty cheap and I've been very happy with the product.
Good luck.  /mm

BigJ

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Re: Building my first: A Lyman Great Plains Rifle 54cal Flintlock
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2013, 12:45:45 AM »
Great guys, thanks!  MM, I'm seeing lots of NOS Nicholson's on eBay made in the USA.  Are those good to go, or do I need to keep looking?

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Building my first: A Lyman Great Plains Rifle 54cal Flintlock
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2013, 01:49:09 AM »
Believe it or not but recently I bought a couple of cheap files at Harbor Freight and they cut like the best of the old American files I remember from past years.At $1.99 each,even if they are short lived,a lot of steel can be moved with them. No makers name or prison numbers,only CHINA on the tangs.

Bob Roller

BigJ

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Re: Building my first: A Lyman Great Plains Rifle 54cal Flintlock
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2013, 02:27:54 AM »
Hmm interesting Bob, thanks for the tip!

Just a little more progress.  I thought this was a pretty telling pic, and it convinced me I made the right call listening to those who advise the use of layout fluid when draw filing the barrel.  I'd read a few opinions both ways, but this pic tells me everything I need to know:



No doubt in my mind there's no way I would have seen that until after final finish.  Made a believer in this technique outta me!

Vomitus

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Re: Building my first: A Lyman Great Plains Rifle 54cal Flintlock
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2013, 02:54:11 AM »
If you do know,that's good but if not, make sure the handle end of the file is in your LEFT hand when drawing towards you. If pushing the file away from you, the opposite.jus sayin

BigJ

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Re: Building my first: A Lyman Great Plains Rifle 54cal Flintlock
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2013, 03:10:33 AM »
If you do know,that's good but if not, make sure the handle end of the file is in your LEFT hand when drawing towards you. If pushing the file away from you, the opposite.jus sayin

Yessir I did know but I appreciate it none the less.  The next guy reading might not know, and I bet the next thing that's obvious to you guys aint to me, so its all good.  Thank you!

Offline WadePatton

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Re: Building my first: A Lyman Great Plains Rifle 54cal Flintlock
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2013, 04:34:57 AM »
If you do know,that's good but if not, make sure the handle end of the file is in your LEFT hand when drawing towards you. If pushing the file away from you, the opposite.jus sayin

i do as much push-filing as draw-filing, but i figger that as long as i'm working the file against the metal side-wise and not lengthwise, then I'm "draw-filing".  I flip-flop depending on how the cut is working.
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Offline bgf

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Re: Building my first: A Lyman Great Plains Rifle 54cal Flintlock
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2013, 03:32:32 PM »
Believe it or not but recently I bought a couple of cheap files at Harbor Freight and they cut like the best of the old American files I remember from past years.At $1.99 each,even if they are short lived,a lot of steel can be moved with them. No makers name or prison numbers,only CHINA on the tangs.

Bob Roller

I believe you.  I bought a set of their 12" files for cleaning up the edges of (big) mower blades and similar, and they cut like an angle grinder.  A second set was even better and they have been cutting steel, brass and wood for 3-4 years with little loss of utility.  They also have a really good set of needle files that I have several sets of, and the first set is still usable, although I broke one of the flat files (that was my fault, being brutish and insensitive).  The middle (normal) range of sizes has not excelled expectations quite so much being of more variable quality (and even more ridiculously cheap), but they have been at least as good and often better than "US brands"; some of the good ones are among my favorites.  The last Nicholsons I bought were nothing but expensive bar stock and as my selection has worn down, I have been reluctant to risk extra money on new ones, as it appears you never know what you are getting these days, so cheap with good chance of success is an attractive option.  Not saying they are as good as some of the ultra-expensive options, but they generally work well enough that if one doesn't do a good job with them, it is not the files' fault.

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Building my first: A Lyman Great Plains Rifle 54cal Flintlock
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2013, 03:46:15 PM »
I do very little draw filing but when I do,I put a few drops of Rapid Tap
on the barrel and with a decent file,a better finish will be obtained.
Not sure about the benefit of layout dyes.

Bob Roller

JB2

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Re: Building my first: A Lyman Great Plains Rifle 54cal Flintlock
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2013, 04:37:36 PM »
Well, if your build skills even approach your photography skills, you'll be doing lots better than me.  The detail in your pics shows plenty of areas that will need little bits of 'massaging'.  I try to use a little more soft-focusing when I take pics of my (un)handi-work ::)