trigger bar

[bdixon]

Hi all, I am presently putting together a Bedford with L&R bedford double triggers.  While trying to keep the stock as thin as I can I am trying to inlet my trigger assy as deep as I can.  How much of the trigger bars have you guys filed down and still felt comfortable with them?  I can get it slim and inlet deeply but am going to have to file a considerable amount off of the trigger bars to get enough clearance for the sear to be able to operate properly.

Thanks,

Brett.

[bgf]

Don't forget you can gain some extra clearance by bending the sear bar up.

[Acer Saccharum]

I am not familiar with the trigger's dimensions set and unset, nor the location of the sear.

The relationship of lock to trigger is something you have to lay out BEFORE you begin inletting the parts. I like to draw it up on paper, then transfer it to the stock.

There was recent discussion about set triggers on another thread. Anyone remember which one that was?

[bdixon]

Acer, I have my dimensions where I need them, the concern is how far "up"  so to speak can I go to keep the stock not so "tall" at the trigger, I'm trying to keep it real slim so to speak.  So when I do that it causes the set bar to interfere with the sear bar when the set bar is in "relaxed" position.  I am wondering how much I can file down and still have the integrity for the bar to trip the sear.  Does any of that make sense?  Sunday Morning fog here in Central Pa.......  Has anyone seen the bar filed down to the level of the notch?  That might make more sense....Sorry to be long winded but I am having a hard time describing it.

Brett.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Mu understanding is that Bedford Co rifles are deeper through the wrist than say a Lehigh Co rifle.  I'd like to see pictures of your build before I comment on how much deeper you should go with the trigger.  For example, I have no idea where you have started the bend of the wrist relative to the trigger(s) location. 
And it is possible to tune double acting set triggers so that in the unset position, the bar of the hammer trigger is more relaxed and not contacting the sear bar.  But to answer your question as best I can, yes, you can grind off the top of the triggers so they can be inlet deeper.  But in doing so you lose the hammer trigger's inertia, which may require more spring tension to fire the lock.  Rather than grind the whole bar down, simply cut a notch in it to clear the sear bar.  Go slowly and check frequently, 'cause a little is a lot.

[necchi]

It's not unheard of to reduce the trigger plate itself. Many have a lot of metal and the facing or outside can be brought down by file or belt sander.

[greybeard]

I am not familiar with the trigger's dimensions set and unset, nor the location of the sear.

The relationship of lock to trigger is something you have to lay out BEFORE you begin inletting the parts. I like to draw it up on paper, then transfer it to the stock.

There was recent discussion about set triggers on another thread. Anyone remember which one that was?

Go back 3 pages Title is  "Don Getz asks Acer about set triggers"

[Acer Saccharum]

Thanks, Greybeard, here it is:

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=28400.0

[Bob Roller]

Acer is right.PREplanning is the only way and see what is needed.
Bending a sear can be a roll of the dice and that can result in a two piece sear.
My locks all use 0-1 oil hardening tool steel and I won't guarantee any flexibility
in them at all.
About 1979 when I started sending locks to Germany,one of them was Helmut Mohr
in Mayen/Hausen who was making a nice copy of a Boutet target pistol and the lock
I was making for it was a Bailes/Manton and he asked me if I could redesign the sear so as to give
a clearance for a high profile single set trigger. I made this modification and the trigger worked as
it should. I think I made about 120 locks for this high quality,high dollar pistol.
Another thing is that some makers of B
edford TYPE rifles tended to slim them down too much and
quickly run into trouble in the trigger/grip/lock area. Wes Kindig of Lodi,Ohio had an original Bedford and it was
not a skinny gun like some of the late,modern representations.

Bob Roller

[bdixon]

Thanks everyone, I can digest this and hopefully get it right in the next few weeks, after that I have some serious back surgery to go through  and can recover without this bugging me.


Brett.

[bgf]

Acer is right.PREplanning is the only way and see what is needed.
Bending a sear can be a roll of the dice and that can result in a two piece sear.
My locks all use 0-1 oil hardening tool steel and I won't guarantee any flexibility
in them at all.
...
Bob Roller

Not sure I understand -- they will bend safely if you heat them up, right?  I bent one hot on an L&R, re-heated and quenched, then tempered and it has never been a problem.  If you are talking about bending cold, then yes -- they most (any type of non-mild steel) likely will break!

PS.  In the case of bending my planning wasn't entirely at fault.  At some point, L&R added about 1/8" or more to their set trigger bars, making them pretty high, and much higher than the Davis that was supposed to be more or less identical (I decided to switch on that rifle)!  I suppose they were addressing complaints about the bars being too low before...

[Dave B]

Brett,
Here is some cross sectional renditions I have from some molds I have of a Bedford butt stock. You need to take into account that the barrel on this rifle is only about 13/16 across the flats. A bigger barrel will be cause for a bigger profile. This one is pretty slim so you can see there is not a lot of room from where the inlet for the triggers would be. The measurements over the top of the profiles is the distance from the butt plate.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/DaveB44/DSCN3051.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/DaveB44/DSCN3052.jpg

[Captchee]

   Personally I have not changed or found a need to change the way I was originally taught to layout a trigger placement . Now granted this may be different then other folks do it  .
 What I do is mark the sear  bar location   on the stock after the plate has been inlet .I carry those lines around  the bottom of the stock


 One  nice  thing about what Acer mentioned about  laying out   on paper is that you know beforehand  how deep the  triggers will go  or can go .

You can take the trigger bar”  IE  the  section of the trigger  which contacts the sear “ down  some times quite a bit . But that depends on the trigger set .
 You don’t want to go IMO  so far as to have the top edge lower then the notch  . As I mention in the thread , some trigger sets have very deep  bar areas,  as in this set .  But others do not .
 Also you will note that in the  following photo, the trigger has been adjusted to far .
IE  there isn’t IMO safe engagement of the trigger notch  .    The photo was originally taken   to show what  happens when the adjustment screw is turned in or capable of being turned in to far .




 You can also , as was mentioned , Notch the bar .  I have even seen case on original triggers “double sets “ where the maker had notched out the bar so that the bottom of the notch was  below the engagement notch..
 However I have also seen  case where that was done where the trigger broke . So I chose not to do that on set triggers .
 It really doesn’t take all that much inertia , to trip a good lock  .    But I have found that as long as you don’t  take the bar down below the engagement notch  the trigger will still trip the sera from the tumbler  even if the trigger spring tension is reduced .

[bdixon]

Thanks captchee, I will probably be alright with the sear filed even with the catch notch.  I was just worried wether or not that was too far or not, good to roll now.


Brett.

[Pete G.]

Last time I used L&R triggers, the front trigger had considerably more height that what I remembered in the past. A welcome change really. It is easy to file down a bar that is too high; to make the bar higher, not so easy. These rifles that we deal with were prior to Eli Whitney's interchangeable parts idea, so having some adjustment built in is good.