Is beauty only skin deep?

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Pure Appalachian work all the way Dave!!!!   Some builders a few years back would have jumped off a cliff if they had seen such inletting!!!       I need to see how you do that!!

[Mike Brooks]

Well, I guess I'm a hacker. maybe I can inlet like that after I retire, I'd go broke now.

[David Rase]

Maybe my thread would have been more appropriately titled, “Blessing or Curse.”  I enjoy doing what I do but I would like to learn to take a more “workmanlike” approach.  That was part of the thinking process behind the post.  I was hoping to learn what a more workmanlike approach looked like.  I am going to start another mountain rifle and I would really like the internal work to be commensurate with the external work.  Maybe even try and inlet the lock and the triggers fully assembled, aka Mark Silver.
David

[Mike Brooks]

Maybe my thread would have been more appropriately titled, “Blessing or Curse.”  I enjoy doing what I do but I would like to learn to take a more “workmanlike” approach.  That was part of the thinking process behind the post.  I was hoping to learn what a more workmanlike approach looked like.  I am going to start another mountain rifle and I would really like the internal work to be commensurate with the external work.  Maybe even try and inlet the lock and the triggers fully assembled, aka Mark Silver.
David

Inletting ala Mark Silver freaks me out!
 Honestly, I admire those crisp interior inlets, but don't have time to do them. I spend far more time on the edges of the inlet where the fit is visible. As long as the part doesn't flop around after it's pinned or screwed down it should be good.
 Generally, the gun you build will never be taken apart anyway other than the lock. We all build guns to our own standards.Some of us are very meticulous, some not so much. As long as the final presentation is good it really doesn't matter how rough the bottom of the triggerguard inlet is.
 Probably more attention should be paid to archetecture than inletting than can't be seen. Just my opinion of course. My opinion is of course based on the fact that I pay my bills with this sort of stuff. If I were a hobby builder than all my inlets may be different..... I have all the bottoming files and chisels, just don't ever use them. It all works, If you can't take the gun apart and look....or even if you could, what difference does it really make?

[PPatch]

I gotta go with Mike B on this one - a workmanlike finish on lock inlets and the like does the job. Now, when I do something like a silver inlay I do take pains to go down as even and sure as possible, I take my time on every aspect of one to ensure I have a solid ground for the inlay.







dp

[Bob Roller]

David,
QUALITY IS THE GOAL TO BE SOUGHT AFTER MERE USEFULLNESS AND UTILITY IS ACHIEVED.
IT REPRESENTS AN IDEAL AND NEVER RELISHES THE COMMONPLACE.


Bob Roller

[Mark Elliott]

Actually,  I do inlet my locks and triggers fully assembled ala Mark Silver.    I tried it the first time after Wallace Gusler gave me a hard time about the way I took everything apart and drilled reference holes for all the screws and tumbler axle.   It actually worked out better than I expected, in that it was faster and the inlet was better.   I took a class from Mark Silver and mentioned it to him and he told me that that was the way he inlet locks.   From then on,  I didn't even consider taking locks, triggers, or barrels apart to inlet them.   

I guess I am going to have to take a gun apart to show my horrible work so that the other end is represented.   

[Tim Crosby]

 Hey Dave, how did you hold those parts onto the tree while it grew around them
Very clean, Top Shelf.

   Tim C.

[PPatch]

Hey Dave, how did you hold those parst onto thee tree while it grew around them
Very clean, Top Shelf.

   Tim C.

Very nice of you Tim - but there were plenty of stinkers before that one...   

I just finished the Lancaster (The Hawg) today, will post pix sometime soon.

dp

[JohnTyg]

Here's a year old repost of one of my few efforts, something to show what a beginner can do if they take their time.

Now I just need to get get the darned MG finished, off the workbench and out of the basement, before my wife will let me start a new rifle. (please forgive the non-rifle photo)

John

[Bob Roller]

What series of MG is it? I worked in a specializing garage and we sold the TD's new
and maintained a facility for real classic cars like Duesenberg and Pierce-Arrow etc.
None of the TD's went 10,000 miles from new without a major failure of some kind.
This does NOT include the one Mrs.Greene while driving drunk ran up under a big Hudson that had stopped suddenly in front of her.
Bob Roller

[Dave B]

I have posted this before but for those that have not seen one of these they are handy. I was lucky enough the Mesers Rase & Keller were teaching a rifle making class and had instructed  students in casting trigger guards and butt plates using sand casting. They had the foundry all set up and had diverged into tool making. I was able to ram up a mold for this little router plane. its small enough to stay on the small edges of the lock panels  the cutters are made from allen wrenches.



It is a god send if you do many of the pierced side plates like these. the cutter is like a dog tooth ground to the size needed to  inlet the  arms of the hunters body parts and the tail of the dog

[JohnTyg]

A couple more photos of my very modest effort.  I think It's good to show the novice efforts along side some of the more talented work shown above.  Sort of puts things into perspective for the beginner following these posts.  Note the counter sunk drill bit, makes a nice little chisel.

(Bob, didn't want to hijack the post away from the main topic, just showing the sorry state of my work bench, and why I've not yet started on my next rifle, although I remain very enthusiastic!  BTW it's an MGA 1500.)

[Dave B]

The gunsmiths of old were not shy about using chisels for quick work. No pussy footing around. Here is a great example of a patch box inlet from a remnant butt stock. no attempt at leveling out the chisel marks. Note the hole at the end of the  lid opening spring inlet.  The hole is for the lid spring.  It has 90 degree bend into a spike that was driven into the stock to keep it in place. No need to waist time making a screw to hold it in place. I have not tried a snikers bar in the patch box cavity as of yet.

[StevenV]

Here are some pictures of lock inlettting I've done. The person who started me building flintlocks does it this way so that is how I do it. To me this is the only way to inlet a lock. Right or wrong, workmanlike or not you decide. Like the originals no but it is the way I was taught, and personally I thoroughly enjoy making pipes and inletting the lock. I build guns all but exclusively for the joy not to try and make some money at it. I farm for a living. I do understand that those trying to make some money do not have to go the the extreme that I do. And their guns are no less valuable.Gun making is a hobby for me. Talked with one very prominent gun builder once and he told me when he first started he could remember every thing about the first couple of guns he made. Once the hobby became a business he has trouble remembering the last build. Here are some pics of a gun given to me by a friend in southern Pa. He got it from his friend in Maryland. Does not to me like this "original" builder spent much time inletting.

[Paddlefoot]

I just love that little router plane Dave. I would think its even smaller than the miniature one Lee Valley sells.

[Acer Saccharum]

This thread reminds me of discussing politics, golden mean, religion, etc.

From Wiki:
De gustibus non est disputandum is a Latin maxim meaning "In matters of taste, there can be no disputes"

The implication is that everyone's personal preferences are merely subjective opinions that cannot be "right" or "wrong", so they should never be argued about as if they were.


  Hahahahaha. 

[smylee grouch]

I wonder if some people go to the extreams in there workmanship is simpley because they can. I dont think I can but dont mind if others can and do. I like looking at quality work even though I cant do as well myself. Keep it up everyone who can.

[Acer Saccharum]

I do it because I like to.   

Please don't try to tell me that I'm wrong, that I don't get pleasure out of the work. Or that nobody ever worked like this, therefore I'm wrong.

I often do the intricate fitting work just for the challenge, and certainly it's a luxury that I take so much time at things. But there is no one telling me I can't work this way. In every other aspect of life, there are rules and regs. In this little corner, it's all mine. I rule.

[David Rase]

I just love that little router plane Dave. I would think its even smaller than the miniature one Lee Valley sells.

Maybe I will get busy and cast a couple more of the little router planes and donate them to Dennis for an ALR fundraiser.  They are too time consuming to cast at home to offer them for sale. 
I would like to have 4 patterns attached to a molding board, then I could make a few to sell.  You would have to do your own polishing as I would just offer the rough casting.
Another retirement project for this summer.
David

[Meteorman]

Please don't try to tell me that I'm wrong, that I don't get pleasure out of the work. Or that nobody ever worked like this, therefore I'm wrong.
...
 In every other aspect of life, there are rules and regs. In this little corner, it's all mine. I rule.

[Bob Roller]

Illegitumus non carborundum was a favorite in the 1970's
and another was "Alle kunst ist umsonst wenn ein englein auf dir fundloch brunst.
Translated as All skill is in vain if an angel takes a leak on your flash hole.

Bob Roller

[KLMoors]

LOL Bob.         

[Mike Brooks]

I do it because I like to.   

Please don't try to tell me that I'm wrong, that I don't get pleasure out of the work. Or that nobody ever worked like this, therefore I'm wrong.

I often do the intricate fitting work just for the challenge, and certainly it's a luxury that I take so much time at things. But there is no one telling me I can't work this way. In every other aspect of life, there are rules and regs. In this little corner, it's all mine. I rule.

I think that level of attention to detail is a good thing. More power to you fellows capable of that level of work.

[James Rogers]

I appreciate and respect that high level of detail and want to someday be able to come close to emulate it. That said, my personal preference for both the hidden and visible aspects is that they be like the original it is to represent. I see that level of inletting on 19th c. English best work and I would expect to see it on guns representing them made today. Conversely I would not want to see that on a Carolina gun or quick made musket for AWI. At the same time, I do not believe my preference should be a justification for $#@* and I would search for the better examples for the style and station of gun to emulate.