Should I solder?

[Canute Rex]

I posted over in the Black Powder Shooting forum recently about a Nelson Lewis rifle I just acquired. It's kind of beat up and needs some work. Well, it needs work if it is going to be more than a wall hanger.

The breech plug needs tightening (about 0.004" thread gap), but that's no big deal with some shim stock. The lock needs a new sear spring. Again, no big deal. These things are mechanical and reversible.

What I have found, however, is that the underrib has separated from the barrel at the breech end to about half of its length. The solder joint separated at some point.

My question is whether I should try to resolder it, repair it some other way, or let it be. The barrel has a fine brown patina on it and I'd hate to ruin that. I'm also concerned about the other solder joints between the pipes and the rib.

Advice welcome.

[E.vonAschwege]

Hey Canute,
   Resoldering a separated underrib on an antique is a pain in the butt.  There is no easy way to go about doing it - there is dirt, oil, and rust underneath the rib where it separated, and as a result you will have an incredibly difficult time getting any solder to flow or stick in it.  What's more, the old fluxes were very acidic and can eat holes through the barrel where moisture has gotten into a separated joint.  I'm not familiar with the gun you're talking about, but it may be best to leave it as a wall hanger.  Have any photos of the barrel area where the rib separated?  Hope this helps.  Best,
-Eric

[PPatch]

Would peening some rivets along the length of it work? Similar to the way some Hawken ribs are/were fastened. Doing so would likely make it a shooter again but lessen its value as an antique. Just asking...

dp

[Hungry Horse]

 I just can't imagine the reasoning behind attempting to shoot an antique gun, that has seen such rough use. What could you possibly accomplish? I have encountered many old rifles that somebody 'FIXED" so they could shoot them. Most of them make me want to scream. Trust me this thing is not going to be a tack driver, if it starts out in this condition.

                     Hungry Horse

[BGC]

I know a few reputable people who do restoration work that refuse to re-solder a rib. Probably because of the work and preparation involved, they will choose to drill two or three holes and attach the rib with screws.  Hopefully there will be no need to start shooting the rifle and only want to hang it up to enjoy, the screw method might be a good alternative to keeping the rib in place.

[westerner]

You'll have to remove the under rib. Clean everything up, re-tin and solder it back on. If the rib is hollow, will take a lot of solder.  Should not effect the color of the barrel. If it does, so what.

I shoot all my old rifles.  Have seen many ALRs I wouldn't shoot.  Nelson Lewis rifles were made to be shot. 

Here's Biggi taking the money and the Glasgow honor target with my John Meunier rifle.


I say restore that Nelson Lewis rifle and shoot it.

         Joe. 

[Dphariss]

Once you screw with it enough its not a Nelson Lewis anymore. UNLESS its PROPERLY restored.
Nor do i trust old barrels, even barrels on breechloaders of the 1880s show some frightening flaws and inclusions.
If this rifle is in this poor a shape I see little point in it being made into a shooter.
I have a 42 +- cal W.H. Moore   Rochester marked rifle that is a shooter. A  friend was shooting it and I think I have the loading notes and other things needed to shoot it in the hard case it came in, except its been shortened about 3-4" at the breech, the patent breechplug removed and a drum and nipple (with a copper washer to take up slack at the barrel) installed years ago sometime between maybe 1870 and ? Drum is old. A hook is filed on the "new" breech plug to fit the standing breech and its been arc welded at some time to build it up to fit better. Lock plate has been filed and polished around the drum to remove the sharp edge where the patent breech fit.
I got the rifle in a trade some years ago with accessories, it was a picket rifle but there is no starter or original picket stuff. So if I wanted to shoot pickets I would have to make a starter and a swage, then I would have to find or make a patent breechplug and set the barrel forward to avoid removing the "W.H. Moore" which is now close to the breech so I would have to cut another groove in the barrel and bridge it for the key like the original and the second one are done.
Its not worth it. I would have more time it in that it would be worth.

Very nice old rifle but I will never shoot it.





Dan

[westerner]

I would. I see the glass half full. It'll always be a Nelson Lewis rifle no matter how much it's restored and shot.

    Joe.

[JCKelly]

If you choose to solder it, there are some low-melting solders made that you can use to minimize the risk of un-soldering the remaining joint. One such has Indium in it, pricey. I used it years ago when I made miniatures. In basement right now, you can google it faster than I can go downstairs to look for it.

And there is also the Dreaded Epoxy. Have no personal experience as to how well it will stay on a gun barrel you expect to shoot/vibrate. To remove epoxy from metal, put the metal in a freezer. The epoxy then pops off. Usually...

Some people (like me) don't quite trust 19th century barrel steel, with its possible defects, and full knowledge that the steel maker did not -COULD NOT - inspect for them. So instead you use a barrel made of a rephosphorized, resulfurized, leaded steel with such interesting properties that steel mills had not even learned how to work such stuff until around WWII.

Yeah.

[Dphariss]

I would. I see the glass half full. It'll always be a Nelson Lewis rifle no matter how much it's restored and shot.

    Joe.

The problem is with the term "restoration".
Is it restoration? Or is it "repair".
There is a BIG difference.

Dan

[Canute Rex]

Thanks for all the input, everybody.

I am leaning towards documenting it extensively and at such time as I have either the time or the money, copying it or having it copied.

The thing that gets me about this rifle is the feel of it. Lewis was apparently a talented shooter and he made a shooter's rifle that just feels so good on my shoulder. The balance is perfect. It just hangs there like there is an invisible sky hook holding it up.

I'm slightly surprised that there aren't people making direct Nelson Lewis copies. Maybe there are and I just don't know about them.

[westerner]

http://www.living-in-the-past.com/lewisbio.html