Author Topic: Patch and load questions for a few rifles, thought I'd introduce myself  (Read 4098 times)

WVlongrifleman

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Hello all, I'm new on here but Ive been lurking for a while. Lots of great info. Ive been doing mountain man reenacting/rendezvous/shooting muzzle loaders my whole life. Im just now getting to where I want to start knowing more about different types of rifles and how to build/repair them. Im in the process of building my first rifle. My grandfather was John Baird, he had a magazine for a while and wrote a few books about hawkens, Im sure some of you remember him.

Anyways, I tried searching online for some info about this but came up with nothing. Ive only ever shot 50 cals and would like to try something different

First off I have a hawken bros. .62 flinter, rifled. I have some 600 balls for it but was wondering what type of load and patch size some of you went with before I ordered random sizes and wasted money on patches I wouldn't use. I dont have a micrometer or ANY fabric stores nearby so I prefer to order pre cut and pre lubed patches

I also have a Curly Gostomski trade rifle I picked up recently. It came with some patches but I don't have a micrometer to see what size they are. The balls are 735s. What caliber would that make the barrel, I dont have a bore gauge?  

Any load/patch suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 12:51:54 AM by WVlongrifleman »

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Patch and load questions for a few rifles, thought I'd introduce myself
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2013, 02:27:09 AM »
Welcome to the forum. I knew your grandfather from some shooting events and corespondence when he was in Big Timber. I am curently building a 62 cal. flinter and have done quite a bit of shooting with other cal. I never had much luck with the precut patches that I bought but I think they were all too thin. Search out a source for 18-20/1000 patch material and do some load development to find out what works best for you.  Good luck with your shooting.

Offline SCLoyalist

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Re: Patch and load questions for a few rifles, thought I'd introduce myself
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2013, 02:48:33 AM »
I expect you'd best get used to the idea of some trial and error to find out what powder, patch, ball loads work best for you.  Also, be on the lookout for a micrometer or calipers to allow measurement of ball diameters and cloth thickness.  

The Curly G. gun may be a 12 gauge, nominally .75 caliber.   I've read Gostomski made some smoothbores in 12 ga.  

For the Curly gun, I'd take some of the patches and try to find some material that feels about the same thickness.  For starting powder load, 70 gr of 2Fg, and work up from there in 5 gr increments to maybe 90 gr.      

I have a .62 rifled Caywood flinter.    For hunting, I use 90 gr of 2Fg, a .595 RB, and some 0.015 oiled linen, and it's a fairly tight fit.   Your .62 might shoot best with a .590 ball and a thicker patch, or even a .600 ball and thicker patch than I use - so trial and error is apt to come into play.

When you get to shooting each gun, retrieve some fired patches from downrange and look for signs of burnout or cutting.   The patches, ideally, would almost look good enough to blow the dirt off them and shoot again.  If they're 'blown', vary the ball diameter and patch thickness until you find an accurate combo that loads snugly and maintains the patch integrity.   Good luck.   SCL
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 02:49:43 AM by SCLoyalist »

Penokemtnman

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Re: Patch and load questions for a few rifles, thought I'd introduce myself
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2013, 03:01:14 AM »
Your 62 Hawken sounds very interesting ! Can you share some details about it ? Thanks Penokemtnman

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Patch and load questions for a few rifles, thought I'd introduce myself
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2013, 03:42:09 AM »
Hello all, I'm new on here but Ive been lurking for a while. Lots of great info. Ive been doing mountain man reenacting/rendezvous/shooting muzzle loaders my whole life. Im just now getting to where I want to start knowing more about different types of rifles and how to build/repair them. Im in the process of building my first rifle. My grandfather was John Baird, he had a magazine for a while and wrote a few books about hawkens, Im sure some of you remember him.

Anyways, I tried searching online for some info about this but came up with nothing. Ive only ever shot 50 cals and would like to try something different

First off I have a hawken bros. .62 flinter, rifled. I have some 600 balls for it but was wondering what type of load and patch size some of you went with before I ordered random sizes and wasted money on patches I wouldn't use. I dont have a micrometer or ANY fabric stores nearby so I prefer to order pre cut and pre lubed patches

I also have a Curly Gostomski trade rifle I picked up recently. It came with some patches but I don't have a micrometer to see what size they are. The balls are 735s. What caliber would that make the barrel, I dont have a bore gauge?  

Any load/patch suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Hello.
I  knew John very well.
Buying patches is a $#@* shoot. However, 9 ounce and 8 ounce denim are places to start for patches, yeah it requires a fabric store or a Wal Mart. Blue stripe ticking where I live is now useless since it is now imported and too weak for reliable accuracy. But by going by weight it requires little measuring. If too thin then go with something a little heavier.

A 62 caliber Hawken may be a kicker the stock design is not usually conducive the calibers this large. Start with 90-100 gr of FF BP and go from there.

Dan in Big Timber
No, sir, I don't give 'em $#*!, I just tell the truth and they think it's $#*!. Harry S Truman

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Patch and load questions for a few rifles, thought I'd introduce myself
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2013, 08:41:49 PM »
I met John Baird at the joint NAPR/NMLRA rendezvous in Montana in '79.  I enjoyed his company a lot, and contributed to his "Defense Fund" at the time.  I bought his first book on Hawken rifles and subscribed to the "Buckskin Report/Blackpowder Report" in its entirety.

I have a .62 cal Hawken rifle with a Rice square bottomed groove barrel.  I shoot a .613" Lyman cast ball of pure lead, .022" denim patch lubed with mink oil for hunting, and 127 grains of GOEX Cartridge BP.  I am delighted with the accuracy out to 200 yds. but just for giggles, I'll try a .600" ball, and even the .595".  It wouldn't even have come to me that those were potential projectiles for the big girl, but it might be worth a test or two.

You do need to purchase (acquire) a pair of Vernier's calipers or a micrometer...you'll use it continuously in this game.  If your Gostomski gun came with .735" balls, it has either a .750" or a .770 bore.  See, we won't know until we measure it!  then you can make some educated guesses as to what patch material it will enjoy.  Having no fabric store handy, get a pair of woman's jeans and cut out the material from the backs of the legs.  That should be about perfect.  Men's jeans are usually much to heavy for the rifle, but may be perfect for the smoothy.

Enjoy the journey.
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Patch and load questions for a few rifles, thought I'd introduce myself
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2013, 10:56:14 PM »
 Welcome! You can pretty much figure that trade gun in .12 ga. is going to be a face buster as well. A good friend of mine had a early Curly 12 bore with a Lott lock in it, and a stock as straight as a stick. It weighed about seven pounds, and kicked no matter how little the charge was. The very straight stock, and the square comb, real set you up for a good wallop.

               Hungry Horse

Offline hanshi

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Re: Patch and load questions for a few rifles, thought I'd introduce myself
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2013, 01:32:47 AM »
Welcome to our forum, WVlongrifleman.  You'll get answers to all your questions, here, by guys who know a lot.  My .62 is a smoothbore and I use .012" to .015" flannel or sometimes ticking and cut my own. 
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

WVlongrifleman

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Re: Patch and load questions for a few rifles, thought I'd introduce myself
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2013, 02:56:06 AM »
Great, now I have somewhere to start. Time to go throw some lead downrange and try for some good groups. Thanks everyone for the warm welcome, the advice is appreciated

Offline Daryl

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Re: Patch and load questions for a few rifles, thought I'd introduce myself
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2013, 10:37:30 AM »
What Taylor and Dan said.  Ditto -& as Taylor noted,  you need to purchase a good set of calipers - or a 1" mic. for measuring patches. The
Calipers will be useful for more jobs than the micrometer.

I lean toward the heavier patching than many people, thus with a .610" or .615" ball I'd start with 10 ounce denim patching or mattress ticking.  For me, pillow ticking is too thin .

If ordering patches or patch material from an outfit like Trackofthewolf.com, I'd order .022" if OxYoke- nothing thinner as it is a waste of money.  I find their material is thinner than noted by the way I measure and would need their thickest to shoot, imho. I once purchased their .018" and it mic' only .015" for me - they were useless & I had to throw them away.  Their .022" might be useable.  By the way I measure cloth, that is what I get from 10 ounce denim- and it works in EVERY rifle I own with balls that run from bore size, to .005" under bore size.  No - it is not hard to load.

I would buy dry patches only - not lubed & lube them myself.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2013, 10:46:37 AM by Daryl »
Daryl

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