Frizzen Woes...

[Hardpan Curmudgeon]

Howdy, All!

New here, but come looking for advice or direction on a couple of issues...

Just acquired an Art Holly rifle (The inside of the lock is stamped "Roy Keller"), with plans to give it to my son for Christmas.

Not a fancy piece at all, but handsome in it's own right... .50 caliber, 36" barrel, in a dark stained stock.  She's evidently been used, but still quite serviceable for the most part.

However, the frizzen is loose.

The frizzen engages the spring nicely, but is loose on it's axis. So... suggestions?  Replace it? And how and where to find one that matches? Or try to repair it?  Considered driving a brass rod into the hole and re-drilling...

Second... for what it's worth, we live smack-dab in the middle of California. And this means no lead projectiles for hunting.  Anyone had any good results with any of the alternatives...?

Thankee!

[David R. Pennington]

You can braze the hole in the frizzen shut and clamp it back in place and carefully re drill the hole with the correct number size drill. If the screw is worn it should be replaced too.

[Mark Elliott]

I like filling small holes with an oversize screw( drill and tap for the larger screw) and then peening the ends.   However, to do that, you will have to anneal the frizzen and then re-heat treat.    When redrilling for the frizzen screw,  you should ream the hole until the screw just fits.   

[Michigan Flinter]

If the repair doesn't work let me know I believe my friend has some of Pa Keeler's lock parts and I can see if he wants to sell a frizen. Did you pick up that rifle in California? I have a Holly .45 plainjane rifle that hasn't been shot very much with a Keeler lock. Another friend has a highend halfstock .54 and a swivel breach .45 made by Art. Good luck on your project.

[Kermit]

Anyone had any good results with any of the alternatives...?

With the operative word "good," I'm not surprised at the silence.

Suggestion: hunt in AZ, NV, or OR.

[Hungry Horse]

 I redid an old Dixie lock frizzen that had the same problem. I bored the frizzen pivot oversize, and used a brass rod to fill the hole. I mounted it in place with Loctite red, and let it set up, and then rebored the hole to the size of the pivot bolt. It is hidden from sight, it never seizes up, and I haven't worn to out in 12 years of use. The best part is no retempering, but, you gotta use carbide bits, to rebore the original frizzen hole.

                   Hungry Horse

P.S. whatcha tryin' to say bout California. I been here all my life ( 64 years today).

[frogwalking]

Hardpan, Make sure the lock has the correct/original frizzen screw, and that someone did not replace it at some time in the past, maybe with a full thread screw.  Make sure wear is in the frizzen and not the screw.  Screws are easier to replace than frizzens are to fix.  If it is the frizzen, you already have several good suggestions. 

[Hardpan Curmudgeon]

If the repair doesn't work let me know I believe my friend has some of Pa Keeler's lock parts and I can see if he wants to sell a frizen. Did you pick up that rifle in California? I have a Holly .45 plainjane rifle that hasn't been shot very much with a Keeler lock. Another friend has a highend halfstock .54 and a swivel breach .45 made by Art. Good luck on your project.

Well, Michigan.... so it's "Keeler!" Very good! The stamp was kind of light; couldn't make out the third letter!

And no, I didn't pick up the rifle in California - actually, a good friend found it at an auction in either Michigan or Ohio ~ not sure which!

Ya know.... if your friend might be willing to part with a frizzen, I - and my 22 year-old son - would be mighty appreciative.   

Thankee kindly!

[EC121]

Model hobby shops have brass tubing.  You might be able to press a piece of tubing in and not have to drill anything.

[Bob Roller]

I have some frizzens that might work. Can you send a picture of what you need.

Bob Roller

[Hardpan Curmudgeon]

I have some frizzens that might work. Can you send a picture of what you need.

Bob Roller

Thanks, Bob!

I'll get some pictures up as soon as the holiday dust settles a mite!

[Bob Roller]

MANY years ago,Roy Keeler sent me some flintlock parts that he  was
having cast and asked if I had any mechanisms adaptable. He gave them
to me with the idea that he'd get the first ones and I think he did but so
much time has passed that my memory is weak on this.

Bob Roller

[Howard]

Years ago I purchased some of Roy's parts to convert a lock. After I welded the pan to the plate I realized that I couldn't drill through the lock plate or even file any part of the pan. He used D-2 steel. I ended up cutting the pan out & making a pan. All his castings were made from D-2.  I wish you luck on your new frizzen if you get one of Roy's old ones that was made of this. Merry Christmas & congratulations on the Art Holly rifle. I always liked Art & his work.

[Bob Roller]

I well remember those glass hard castings and raised $#*! about them.
Lock plates with curves instead of being flat and shattering like glass
when trying to straighten them. Frizzens that couldn't be drilled and
other lock plates that when drilled and reamed for the tumbler,the hole
went out of round.Quality control was not a strong idea in the late '50s
or early '60s and it soured me on muzzle loaders and new parts for them for a long
time.

Bob Roller

[Ron Hodge]

I have Roy Keller lock, but the Mainspring does not fit.  Looks like the previous owner tried to relocate it but the arch in the spring is too high for the full cock.  this is a 5" x 15/16" lock. Can anyone give advise as to where I can buy a mainspring or new lock that would match?

[Scota4570]

I'd investigate reaming the frizzen and pan to some slightly larger size.  I'd keep the old threads.  I'd then make a screw that it is a snug it in the new holes.