Author Topic: BICENTENNIAL JAEGER 1776-1976  (Read 11151 times)

Offline nord

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BICENTENNIAL JAEGER 1776-1976
« on: January 23, 2009, 04:26:01 PM »
This rifle was commissioned by the U.S. Government to be built as part of the Bicentennial Celebration in 1976. It rode the Freedom Train from coast to coast.

Strangely, the US leased the gun instead of purchasing it. The gun passed into private ownership after the lease expired and has remained in private hands since that time.

This gun will be on display at the upcoming Lewisburg show at my table with the kind permission of the owner. I guarantee that you won't believe your eyes!























« Last Edit: December 31, 2023, 07:21:48 PM by rich pierce »
In Memory of Lt. Catherine Hauptman Miller 6/1/21 - 10/1/00 & Capt. Raymond A. Miller 12/26/13 - 5/15/03...  They served proudly.

Mike R

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Re: BICENTENNIAL JAEGER 1776-1976
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2009, 05:07:25 PM »
who was the builder [blurry photo showing name on barrel]?

Offline nord

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Re: BICENTENNIAL JAEGER 1776-1976
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2009, 05:10:43 PM »
I believe a "J. Cunningham" from what I can determine on the photo. The gun is not mine, though I have access to it from time to time. I'll share more when information becomes available.
In Memory of Lt. Catherine Hauptman Miller 6/1/21 - 10/1/00 & Capt. Raymond A. Miller 12/26/13 - 5/15/03...  They served proudly.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: BICENTENNIAL JAEGER 1776-1976
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2009, 05:19:09 PM »
A Bordello gun! :o
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Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

famouseagle

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Re: BICENTENNIAL JAEGER 1776-1976
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2009, 07:22:53 PM »
Odd that, since it was commissioned as a Bicentennial piece, there is no Bicentennial (or any other) theme to the inlays and engraving.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2009, 03:43:30 AM by famouseagle »

Offline TPH

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Re: BICENTENNIAL JAEGER 1776-1976
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2009, 10:59:10 PM »
What are the lock dimensions? It looks like it may be a re-worked Italian Brown Bess lock....
T.P. Hern

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: BICENTENNIAL JAEGER 1776-1976
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2009, 12:04:58 AM »
Quote
What are the lock dimensions? It looks like it may be a re-worked Italian Brown Bess lock....
I was thinking it's a Lott lock.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline rich pierce

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Re: BICENTENNIAL JAEGER 1776-1976
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2009, 02:36:31 AM »
Me too.  Glad they re-worked it.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: BICENTENNIAL JAEGER 1776-1976
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2009, 03:26:03 AM »
Yeah, that gold bear is really cool...... ::)
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline TPH

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Re: BICENTENNIAL JAEGER 1776-1976
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2009, 04:45:00 AM »
Quote
What are the lock dimensions? It looks like it may be a re-worked Italian Brown Bess lock....
I was thinking it's a Lott lock.


It could be a Lott, they are very similar. Given the time period of construction, you are probably right.
T.P. Hern

Offline Dave B

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Re: BICENTENNIAL JAEGER 1776-1976
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2009, 09:19:13 AM »
I am sure the lock is one of the Lott locks. That bear covers the name nicely. I like the stock wire work,sheet inlay with its engraving. I cant say I like all the nails and modern engraving is a turn off.  I like the bone inlay work and panels scrimshawed/carved. The inletting work is nicely done. It was a big time investment no doubt.  I would say its a good fantasy Jaeger Ala Fred Riley school of gun making. I too would have expected the project to have more of a bicentennial theme to it. How ever.... I guess if you look at a John Bivins Bicentennial rifle would you not also say I don't see any bicentennial themes?
Dave Blaisdell

richardn

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Re: BICENTENNIAL JAEGER 1776-1976
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2009, 02:38:50 PM »
I would expect a Jaeger with more of a military theme and therefore considerably less elaborate. As relates to the Pennsylvania Bicentennial Rifle there is indeed a brass plaque inside the two piece patchbox cavity, but that's it.

Ben Gorey

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Re: BICENTENNIAL JAEGER 1776-1976
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2009, 06:28:51 AM »
I recall that there was a Cunningham working in the western US during the bicentenial period.

Ben Gorey

Offline B Shipman

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Re: BICENTENNIAL JAEGER 1776-1976
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2009, 08:42:21 AM »
By todays standards, the gun is extremely amateurish. A huge effort in time but I agree with Mike Brooks.

Ben Gorey

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Re: BICENTENNIAL JAEGER 1776-1976
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2009, 03:49:55 AM »
See Orion barrel post for maker.

Offline Will Sanders

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Re: BICENTENNIAL JAEGER 1776-1976
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2023, 07:11:40 PM »
I just happened upon this post . I wont post all  the details YET But, all of the information on this rifle here is completely fabricated !!! I have been searching for this rifle for decades. MY FATHER COMMISSIONED THIS RIFLE TO BE BUILT FOR ME AND IT WAS THE LAST GUN HE GAVE ME AS A GIFT . When he was dying  of cancer I had to sell things to help out and THIS was a causality of that need . I cant see the photos on this thread but the full description easily identifies it as my old rifle. Who came up with this phony story and please tell me who has the rifle now ? I have FULL color photos of every angle of this gun and can answer any questions on the details. PLEASE HELP . I'm old now and on SS and poor but for decades I tried to find it so I could buy it back when I had the money to do so. There is more to the story as well and more than John Cunningham was involved in the making of this masterpiece. Yes to me it was  as well  as a precious gift from my dad to me.   

Offline Daryl

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Re: BICENTENNIAL JAEGER 1776-1976
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2023, 08:13:41 PM »
Welcome to the forum, Will.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: BICENTENNIAL JAEGER 1776-1976
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2023, 08:33:38 PM »
Well now this is interesting.  Hope you don't feel too badly about having to sell it - you know what 'they' say, if you can't let something go in need, it owns you and not the other way around.  I'm quite curious as to who was involved in making this.
Strange women lying in ponds, distributing swords, is no basis for a system of government!

Offline Will Sanders

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Re: BICENTENNIAL JAEGER 1776-1976
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2023, 08:36:53 PM »
Thank you. Do you know if the original poster of this is still active on the forum? take a look at the thumb piece the initials W.F.S are MINE William Flynn Sanders. also, John Cunningham was a friend of My fathers and myself, he lived in PA as its marked on the barrel not in the west and what was not shown here, cutt of was its also signed R . GUTHRIE, W Va. a very famous and super talented engraver and carver, one of the best, who is now gone. I last saw Bob about in 2006 at the NMLRA rendezvous and he told me he was trying very hard to find me my rifle but did not know who had it but that he thought it was sold at a Gun show in the Northeast.That barrel is a 62 caliber Getz barrel straight not swamped as I wanted which is why John flared the ivory nose cap a bit to add a flared look and the trigger on the set is a STERLING SIL]VER SPPON END MY FATHER GAVE HIM FROM OUR SPOON COLLECTION  when he told him he was looking for an ornate silver spoon to use in the set triggers. Also by the way the old buyer at the Canton Gun show short canged me on the payment , a sad story thats my fault for not being more careful and too trusting.

Offline Will Sanders

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Re: BICENTENNIAL JAEGER 1776-1976
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2023, 08:51:51 PM »
Eric, are you kidding I WAS COMPLETLY AND UTTERLY DEVASTED   to have to sell a family heirloom,that should have stayed in the family my father had commissioned as a gift to me. I had no choice at the time to try and help with funds, to add insult to injury I was cheated on the price with a switcharoo of cash in an envelope that had been previously counted out,my fault but still it happened. John Cunnighnam of Western Pa and Bob , Robert Guthrie of W.va were the makers. John did the basic work, and Bob all of the engraving and carving. Who ever took the photos cut Bob's signature off whichis odd as if they did not want peopelto see who actually made it . I put photos of this rifle out everywhere, every member of the CLA got them, and the story, and adds were placed in the NMLRA magazine and all other black powder mags for years when I was working to try and find it when i had the chance to buy it back and bring it home to the family where it belongs. The ONLY hit I ever got was from a scammer who convinced me he had the rifle and tried to steal the money but the authorities got him and I got those funds back around 2005 or so. This back story I believe was fabricated to try and cover the tracks of the rifle and sold to who ever last bought it probably,  but wow who would believe that with no documentation that that Gov made rifle ever existed? It does sound nice I guess. Its sad some cant see the absolutely amazing workmanship that went into the carving and engraving etc .Back  when it was made it was not easy to get a good large German type lock so I guess John used what he had and it wound  up looking prety nice. It would be fantastic  if i was able  to get it home but I doubt it , peopel are not generally that good hearted today . I stil have the  embroidered and leather sling that was on it ,i removed it before i went to sell it as havign that little rememberance by.

Offline Will Sanders

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Re: BICENTENNIAL JAEGER 1776-1976
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2023, 09:08:14 PM »



upload pic

Here are some of my old pictures in case anyone doubts and you can see ALL  of the makers names as they appear on the barrel here

Offline Robby

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Re: BICENTENNIAL JAEGER 1776-1976
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2024, 03:20:05 PM »
Will, I hope you find your gun and are able to retrieve it. I'd be willing to chip in a bit if you need help on that end.
Robby
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Offline Will Sanders

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Re: BICENTENNIAL JAEGER 1776-1976
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2024, 04:14:30 PM »
Now the reply button has appeared!!! Thank you Robby thats very kind. I sent you a PM as well there has been a massive effort for years to keep me from finding this gun , in part I'm sure due to what I wrote you about .Not listing the real owner name , making up a bogus story, bluring  out and cutting off one of the makers names ,in the photos when all the others are cryatal clear  all goes to  this same type of actions to cover the real  history and story of the rifle

Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: BICENTENNIAL JAEGER 1776-1976
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2024, 02:28:52 AM »
Will - no I am not kidding, just trying to offer a perspective that I thought might help.  I went through what I imagine was almost an identical situation and had to make some extremely hard choices also.  If I could sell everything I own to get my dad back for a day, I would.  Anyway no offense intended.  I hope you can track this down.  I'd try over on the "other" muzzleloading forum also, muzzleloadingforum.com.  Not quite as serious a place as this one, but I think they have a larger number of casual viewers.  Also I'd try hitting up some of the big auction houses - RIA, Morphy's, Poulin etc.  You may get a response, or not, but can't hurt I guess.  i don't know where you are but there are always some big hitters at the Vegas gun show and the Baltimore show every year, so look for some of the larger gun shows as well.

Nord(Bruce) is long gone and I doubt very much you're going to get anywhere down that path.  He was a good guy and I don't think he was deliberately posting inaccurate information.  He probably got the info from someone else and just passed it along.  You also might try contacting Greg Dixon at Dixon's Muzzleloading Shop (Kempton PA) with the photos - he knows a lot of people and he may know of it if it's somewhere here in the mid-Atlantic area.
Strange women lying in ponds, distributing swords, is no basis for a system of government!

Offline Will Sanders

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Re: BICENTENNIAL JAEGER 1776-1976
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2024, 02:52:25 AM »
Thank  you ,I pmed you