Author Topic: Beastie rifle (Read 27889 times)

davebozell · « **Reply #25 on:** January 25, 2014, 07:09:30 PM »

Love it. The only thing missing is a zucchini carving somewhere....

Meteorman · « **Reply #26 on:** January 25, 2014, 07:30:15 PM »

A buffet of neat things goin on with that piece, Mr Tom.
Would like to see the muzzle treatment if you have a pic of it.
Buttplate is awesome - musicians get rich and famous occasionally covering earlier work - you can too.
/mike m

eddillon · « **Reply #27 on:** January 25, 2014, 07:33:05 PM »

Really like the way that your curves break through the lock molding and the lower stock molding. Must have involved some serious preplanning. High relief parts are beautifully executed. Great job, Tom.

Hemo · « **Reply #28 on:** January 25, 2014, 07:40:34 PM »

From Acer: "I replicated the hardware. A friend lent me antique hardware off his gun. I made rubber molds, and then waxes from the molds, and sent the waxes off to the foundry. So the hardware is new, so I did not sculpt it."

Dang! You had me all excited for a minute. I am working on an early 18th century ball-butt German pistol, and attempting my first relief engraving on the barrel and some of the brass hardware. I was going to pick your brain on how you cut out and smoothed the low relief background around the engraved designs--rifflers, chisels, stones? All of the above? Too late for me to make castings! Feel free to expound on how you WOULD have done it from scratch, please!

Also, what final finish did you use? I like the soft matte effect.

Spectacular work, as usual!

Hemo

smart dog · « **Reply #29 on:** January 25, 2014, 08:28:58 PM »

Hi Tom,
Fantastic piece that looks like it came right out of some collection of fine originals. Everything works together, which is a sign of good art.

dave

E.vonAschwege · « **Reply #30 on:** January 25, 2014, 08:46:47 PM »

Quote from: Hemo on January 25, 2014, 07:40:34 PM

Feel free to expound on how you WOULD have done it from scratch, please!

Hemo

Hemo,
Acer made a Jaeger rifle years ago, er, is still making it, in which he sculpted the castings for it. He can elaborate on the process better than I can, but you're right about the chisels and gravers for carving brass much the way we do with wood.
-Eric

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #31 on:** January 25, 2014, 09:26:31 PM »

Quote from: Acer Saccharum on January 25, 2014, 05:08:30 PM

Mike, I wish you would slow down.

I replicated the hardware. A friend lent me antique hardware off his gun. I made rubber molds, and then waxes from the molds, and sent the waxes off to the foundry. So the hardware is new, so I did not sculpt it.

If I was starting from scratch, I think I'd still be making the hardware.....

The original stuff was cast, so there must have been patterns. What did they use for a master? What did they use for a mold? Maybe someone here knows how this stuff was done. Lost wax, or sandcast, I can't say how the originals were done.

REPLICATED is to big of a word. I tried relief sculpting in brass once years ago. Lost intrest in that sort of thing pretty quickly.

Sure is a nifty gun.

Gene Carrell · « **Reply #32 on:** January 25, 2014, 09:30:52 PM »

Great looking rifle. Love the carving. Masterful!

Vomitus · « **Reply #33 on:** January 25, 2014, 09:53:34 PM »

Beautiful hunting rifle Ace. You got it all scratched up and haven't even shot it! Try to be a little more careful next time,k?

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #34 on:** January 25, 2014, 10:06:10 PM »

Mike, I made copies of old gun parts, using molds made of rubber.

Steel is so much easier to chisel than brass. It doesn't workharden and cuts consistently. All early steel/iron hardware is chiseled, because the technology to cast it in detail did not exist in the 17th Cent.

Brass often has soft/hard spots. Once a cut is made, the metal surface is 'workhardened'. After a cut has been made, it's very hard to go back in and take a little shaving off, as the metal now resists being cut. This is why I think most brass relief hardware is cast.

DaveP (UK) · « **Reply #35 on:** January 25, 2014, 10:42:00 PM »

Beautiful gun. I'd just like... to touch it

I mean - I can say that here without anyone thinking I'm Odd right?

Isn't this is the gun you showed in your draft "stabbing in" tutorial? If so, I was looking back at that the other day and my attention was caught by a tricky looking highlight in the ground at the back edge of the cheek rest. I was wondering how you were going to deal with it, and even considered asking you. I have to say - you've sorted it - to my satisfaction at least! Its strange how sometimes a feature will catch your attention and end up disproportionally important.

Since the topic has come up, I noticed the scratches too. I've also noticed quite visible tool marks in another, apparently finished, gun by you. I'm rather prone to finishing the life out of things I make, so I'd be very interested to read your thoughts on when to stop trying. Unless its just too depressing, that is!

Vomitus · « **Reply #36 on:** January 25, 2014, 10:59:22 PM »

I was teasing Tom, Dave (UK). I do my own "distressing". First time out with new long barreled fowling gun.Banged it into the door of pickup truck. I was so *#)*^~ off! Ah, forgot cleaning/range rod. Throw it in beside fowler. Rifle range road rough and rutted.Don't notice that range rod has vibrated against the stocks forend until I pull this unfired beauty out of the truck. "Well,fornicate me" I scream in more descriptive language. Haven't even fired a shot and it has seven distinct marks on it.
I'm one of the guys who likes to add his own patina. Sometimes it takes years, sometimes it takes minutes. jus sayin...

Elnathan · « **Reply #37 on:** January 26, 2014, 03:38:05 AM »

I have been awaiting more pictures of this one since you posted one a couple months earlier. They were worth waiting for.

Very, very nice job.

Edited to add:
Take some full length pictures and send them to the contemporary makers blog.

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #38 on:** January 26, 2014, 04:46:56 AM »

The hardware and lock determined the form of the gun. The style of the hardware inspired the 'flavor'. I don't know if the original hardware is Dutch, Low German, or German. The mask on the end of the buttplate almost looks Chinese; speculation that the Dutch imported castings from China as early as the late 1600's confuses the issue. The hardware was found on a maple-stocked gun, in a crudely formed jaeger-styled stock. Was it American made? Or Continental? Who knows.

I define this piece as 'an historical novel', because the elements are all there from historic examples, yet it's not based on any known rifle. There are also some artistic freedoms taken, hence, the novel.

Early on, in the shape stages. I take a lot of time at this point, because shape is everything. Shape is what you see from across the room, what draws you to the object.

After you've got the shape you like, then comes decoration. Most of this work was stabbed, with some detailing using gouges and parting tools.

I paid much attention to the background, having been challenged by Jim Kibler's work.

Mark Elliott · « **Reply #39 on:** January 26, 2014, 04:50:27 AM »

Very creative and well executed, as usual. Where do you send just a couple of waxes to be cast?

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #40 on:** January 26, 2014, 05:10:50 AM »

Quote from: DaveP (UK) on January 25, 2014, 10:42:00 PM

Since the topic has come up, I noticed the scratches too. I've also noticed quite visible tool marks in another, apparently finished, gun by you. I'm rather prone to finishing the life out of things I make, so I'd be very interested to read your thoughts on when to stop trying. Unless its just too depressing, that is!

Dave P, I try to get tool marks out, but there is so much real estate to cover, I can never get them all out. Honestly, I get bored at some point with getting out the marks, and accept that it is what it is. Like, hey, this is pretty good, most the guys looking at it are geezers, and can't see anyway...

Guardian Angel taps me on the shoulder: 'Whoa, dude, you're kind of a geezer yourself...'

I believe attention to detail should be appropriate for the type of gun, and the culture which produced it. In American work, toolmarks are part of the finished work. Oh, blasphemy, but this is my understanding so far in life. If I were t try a high-end French piece, like a Boutet, it would be another story. Every little thing would have to be perfect. I'm not that kind of guy.

Mark Elliott · « **Reply #41 on:** January 26, 2014, 01:22:13 PM »

I must be a geezer too.

. I didn't notice the tool marks the first time through. I had to go back and look for them. Of course, I have the same approach as you. I expect to see imperfections. It would stand out like a sore thumb if there weren't any.

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #42 on:** January 26, 2014, 06:05:45 PM »

Toolmarks are telling of the hand, the man, and the methods. Marks are a means to understand how antiques were made.

smart dog · « **Reply #43 on:** January 26, 2014, 06:08:33 PM »

Hi,
The Japanese have a term for it: "wabi sabi", which means nothing is perfect, nothing is finished, and nothing lasts forever.

dave

Majorjoel · « **Reply #44 on:** January 26, 2014, 06:57:39 PM »

Gosh Smart Dog Dave, I wonder if Tonto knew a bit of Japanese when he always referred to the lone ranger as "Kemo Sabi"

James Rogers · « **Reply #45 on:** January 26, 2014, 08:03:25 PM »

Robust, determined. Very believable for what you are intending and surfaces also reflecting that well. I like the underside finish of the PB lid as much as the mechanism!

J. Talbert · « **Reply #46 on:** January 26, 2014, 10:57:59 PM »

Acer,
I've been looking forward to seeing this gun finished since you first posted the pictures of it in process. I just now stumbled onto it.

It's a great interpretation. Lots of neat interesting details, and totally believable .

love it,

Jeff

woodburner · « **Reply #47 on:** January 27, 2014, 04:58:10 AM »

Acer, your rifle is outstanding,terrific,creative, and all the otherwise priorly
stated. The trigger guard, butt plate, engraving that is beautiful beyond
words. Another artful piece.

Tim

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #48 on:** January 27, 2014, 05:14:56 AM »

Someone, probably between 1700-1740, designed and made the patterns for the buttplate, guard, and entry pipe, then had the parts cast. They ended up on a gun that was found in America. I just reproduced them.

Was this a European made gun? I dunno. Too many unknowns. And mysteries.

DaveP (UK) · « **Reply #49 on:** January 27, 2014, 11:58:39 AM »

Thanks for giving me an insight into your approach

Quote from: Acer Saccharum on January 26, 2014, 06:05:45 PM

Toolmarks are telling of the hand, the man, and the methods. Marks are a means to understand how antiques were made.

This idea is familiar. In truth I don't see how anyone with an interest in making "stuff" can fail to find tool marks on historical items fascinating. I only have two problems with it. The first is a local perspective - when I hear the word gunsmith I tend to think of fine meticulous work, impeccable finish and the phrase best gun is probably going to pop up in the nest sentence. This reflects my time and place. I can well imagine that priorities could have been a little different in an eighteenth century colonial setting.
So original longrifles sometimes bear tool marks on visible surfaces? That's a point well worth remembering and one that I would probably never have discovered without someone spelling it out. Thanks.
The second problem? Other folks tool marks always look so much nicer than mine...
I know. Practice, practice, pra ...

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Author Topic: Beastie rifle (Read 27889 times)

Meteorman

eddillon

Hemo

Vomitus

DaveP (UK)

Vomitus

woodburner

DaveP (UK)