Honey I bought another rifle

[cmac]

Wow! The Armstrong rifle is twice as valuable as my house.    http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2014/01/james-julia-auction-items_26.html

[Mark Elliott]

Where do you live?   I need to move there.   Here,   you might get a garage for the price of that Armstrong,  not a house. 

[Avlrc]

Looks like these beauties went for, or  near the high end of their estimates. A lot better for the sellers than a few of the recent auctions, where some 'Kentuckies" went for far less than many collectors thought & below their estimates. Maybe the demise of the antique long rifle is not here after all.

[Buck]

Avlrc,
These are from the last auction when everyone wanted to jump off a cliff and land in the safety net of the NRA.
Buck

[Avlrc]

Avlrc,
These are from the last auction when everyone wanted to jump off a cliff and land in the safety net of the NRA.
Buck

Well those prices were pretty good. They must have been the exceptions?

[okawbow]

Where do you live?   I need to move there.   Here,   you might get a garage for the price of that Armstrong,  not a house. 

Where I live in Southern Illinois; one can buy a decent house AND garage for the price of the Armstrong. There just aren't any jobs here, so you can afford to buy them.

That must have been some work of art to bring that price.

[JTR]

Heck, out here where I live, my car cost more than that!

John 

[Shreckmeister]

Where do you live?   I need to move there.   Here,   you might get a garage for the price of that Armstrong,  not a house.  

Where I live in Southern Illinois; one can buy a decent house AND garage for the price of the Armstrong. There just aren't any jobs here, so you can afford to buy them.

That must have been some work of art to bring that price.

   And percussion to boot....and I was told they weren't worth anything   Not much of a photo but
it looks like a conversion?

[Majorjoel]

With Andy Warhol paintings of soup cans going for millions of dollars, I sure cannot ever figure out the logic to anything in this day and age!

[Majorjoel]

Oh ya JTR, you must have one of those "California" mini vans. 

[Buck]

Avlrc,
I think everything sold for reasonable prices. There were some sleepers and some that went for a lot more, but the quality rifles sold (possibly a whisker less) for the right prices.
Buck

[kaintuck]

Wow! The Armstrong rifle is twice as valuable as my house.    http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2014/01/james-julia-auction-items_26.html

The rifle had to have only one buyer that would pay that!......everyone else payed less.....so goes with everything......but you can't live in a rifle.

[JTR]

Oh ya JTR, you must have one of those "California" mini vans. 

  F430 Super Mini!

John

[JTR]

Wow! The Armstrong rifle is twice as valuable as my house.    http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2014/01/james-julia-auction-items_26.html

The rifle had to have only one buyer that would pay that!......everyone else payed less.....so goes with everything......but you can't live in a rifle.

If you can afford the rifle,,, you can afford the house! Unfortunately it doesn't seem to work the other way around! 
John

[mr. no gold]

Armstrong did produce some percussion guns, but apparently not too many. I have seen two or three originals and sadly a few that had been, before some misguided nit wit had them changed to flint. No names here, but I know of at least one individual who had it done. Some rifles, of course were changed fron flint to cap, and I suppose that has been undone by this time (cap back to flint) for most if inot all. The Julia cap Armstrong was an original gun and worth even more than was paid out, in my opinion.
Be sure to check out the next Julia Auction as there are some great pieces in that one, too. I like the Armstorng, the Mauger, and the Edwards.
Dick 

[Buck]

kaintuck,
I am not sure of your exposure but that is the going rate for Armstrong's work. 80K to 120K, probably due to the quality and the scarce numbers of his specimens. I thought I heard there are only 28-30 documented known rifles, maybe Dick or Henry could chime in on that and quantify that claim. I know of at least 3 other people who bid on that rifle and they dropped out around 90 to 95K. So there were more than just 1 or 2 guys bidding.  Regarding your statement that he was the only one who would pay that, I would agree, that's why he won the bid.
Buck

[galamb]

The Emmitsburg historical society has a pretty good write up on John Armstrong. They cite research done by Hartzler which stated there were 28 known Armstrong rifles (article not dated but post 1996) and that it was estimated that another six to eight probably existed but had not yet come to light.

It also estimated that he possibly built 600 rifles over his lifetime (a lot of variables were guessed at to come up with that number), so based on the estimated remaining rifles that is about a 6% survival rate.

[Buck]

The Albert Sullivan article in the KRA Articles 1-30 also provides these same figures.
1.) If he began producing rifles in 1793 (7 years) using 17 rifles per year, reduced by 25% = 12 to 13 per year. That's 91 rifles predating 1800, 6% survival rate is 5.46 rifles pre 1800 that still should be around.
2.) 1830-1841 (9) years of percussion era production 117 rifles, factor in the 6% survival rate you should have around 7 original percussion rifles in existence today. By 1841 he is 69 - 70 years old, how many rifles was he really producing the last 10 years in the percussion era? So the 4 original percussion era rifles might be a reality.

Of course this is all speculation, one thing is for sure his rifles were of the utmost quality.
Buck

[galamb]

I haven't seen the "brown book" but yes, it was an article by Albert Sullivan, quite long/well done and cites a number of sources.

[Buck]

The article date, winter 1977.
Buck

[jdm]

  It was my understanding that  most Armstrong rifles were made as percussion using flint lock plates that he had.  Am I wrong in this assumption?

[galamb]

Thanks for the date Buck - I will add that to the article.

Armstrong made his own locks. This is one from a 40 cal percussion.

While the lockplate, when he made it, looks obviously to have been meant for a flint, given there is none of the holes which would have been necessary for the frizzen/spring it's probably safe to assume that it was originally assembled as a percussion lock before I got put on the rifle (so was never actually assembled as a flintlock in the first place and then converted).



Should have added. I have photo's of 5 different percussion Armstrong's and all the locks show that little bit of flash fence remaining on the lock - he seems to have been quite consistent in his design.