Paper shot cup for Flint Smooth Bore?

[Jeff Peters]

I was watching Backland experiences last evening on TV and  a fellow was shooting a 150 plus year old 16 ga smooth bore percussion gun that was English made. He was pattering it to go turkey hunting. His first pattern was OK but the distance was a bit close.
To tighten up his pattern and give him better distance he added a piece of paper rolled up around the shot between the powder over wad and the shot cover wad. This gave him a bit tighter pattern and a few more yards distance.

My question to the group is has anyone here tried  this, and what were your results?
I'm working up loads for my 20 ga smooth bore flint that I finished and would like to tighten the pattern a bit
My hope is to hunt spring turkeys with it as well

Thanks
Jeff

[JBJ]

I have made and used shot cups made from one thickness of heavy brown wrapping paper. The tubes were wrapped around a wood mandrel sized to give a close fit in barrel and the 1/8 inch overlap glued down. The paper tubes were then snipped lengthwise for a depth that allowed me to fold the "petals" over to meet in the middle and the end was then capped with a paper disc glued to the end and covering the "petals". The length of the resulting cup was adjusted to just hold the shot charge. They seemed to help a bit - nothing dramatic. Kind of tedious but that's the fun of tinkering in the shop.
J.B.

[Daryl]

Post-it note pads can be used as well.

We tried this in Taylor's Manton SXS 15 bore with mixed results. I'd have liked to experiment more with those loads- perhaps this summer.

I like the idea of Jeff's with the wad glued to the base of the folded-over paper- excellent. That will form a cup if filled with shot, then another edge glued to the top.  If using 14 bore wads, which actually measure .705"(13 bore), they'll fit easily inside a 12 bore, then when rammed, the paper will split on one side (perfect) or simply unwrap slightly-.020") bit and re-seal (also perfect) such is the glue in post-it-notes.  The load might need a 12 bore over shot wad on top- but- carrying these shot 'ctgs' with a few "B" wads is simpler than carrying a shot bag and several different wads for hunting.

Single wrap, double wrap, triple wrap? shot charge, wads used, powder charges, 2F or 3F or 1F -  endless experimentation opportunities for a nice day's shooting and counting pellet holes.

[Jeff Peters]

Thanks to you both
I like the idea of having the loads pre-made
I'll need to experiment and report back
Jeff

[Mike R]

My buddy and I experimented with paper cups/wrappers for his 20 bore flinter awhile back...made like 'penny wrappers', we figured they would be handy loads to carry hunting and might tighten groups [he was interested in turkeys]. They do make handy loads to carry on a hunt--but can't say we made much progress in groups--one caution: do not seal the front of the "cup"/wrapper; we tried that, thinking the shot would burst through, but instead the whole shebang acted like a solid and made single holes (often sideways) in the targets. 

[C Wallingford]

[one caution: do not seal the front of the "cup"/wrapper; we tried that, thinking the shot would burst through, but instead the whole shebang acted like a solid and made single holes (often sideways) in the targets. 
[/quote]

Been there and done that!!

[HAWKEN]

I wonder if coin wrappers would work?  I have a Pedrisoli SBS 20ga, bored IC & Mod, that I would like to harvest a turkey with.  Between quarter, nickel and penny wrappers, one might be close enough.  Also, what size of shot would be best?  I think 4's would work, maybe 8's and 4's, or 6's and 4's.  I still have some 5's left over from reloading modern shells....Robin

[necchi]

a dime will just fit in a 12ga Modified, a dime will not fit in a 12ga full,,

[B.Habermehl]

Once upon a time I tried dime tubes in a 12 ga muzzleloader. On the range they were outstanding. Out in the turkey woods I took the toms head completely off. The shot cup obviously slugged and did not open. Good thing I didn't run into the WCO on the way out. I would have had some explaining to do! BJH

[dlbarr]

.....but instead the whole shebang acted like a solid and made single holes (often sideways) in the targets.  

To avoid this situation, I've used either newspaper or cigarette paper. In other words, a very thin paper should allow the shot to break free and expand on its way to the target..

[JBJ]

A cheap and readily available paper that works well is the thin white paper that shirts etc. come wrapped in. It is a type of "tissue paper" and can purchased in packets from Wally World and other outlets. A packet of the stuff is CHEAP and one packet would last forever! Makes a good end cap for the shot cup and can be glued in place around the edges with something like Duco cement. A side note: you may want to try a sleeve (one thickness) of Tyvek cut from a Tyvek shipping enevelope inserted inside the shotcup to further protect the shot charge. The edges of the sleeve are not glued. It is all about experimenting! BTW, the shotcup units are a joy in the field but require some protection in carrying them as the front covering is "tender" and readily burst open.
J.B.

[hammer]

Guys, go to www.muzzleloadingshotguns.com it's all there.    History, how to and shot patterns.  Just click on 'Articles'.   Lot of other useful stuff as well.
Peter.

[dlbarr]

That's a great site, Hammer. Never had seen that one before. Thanks

[Daryl]

Thanks Peter - THAT is a VERY good site. Note the loads in the trap/skeet article -10 bore gun and light 12 bore loads 2 1/2 to 3 drams with 1ounce of shot. The proof is in the pattern!

[sloe bear]

 I have tried with some success using newsprint in making a shot cup very available and easy to roll and glue, but it really does not make a big difference in the pattern and as far as carrying them its makes things slower , I still prefer to use my shot bag with pre set charge always easy and the bag I have has two side to it I carry 4 chill on one side and 7 1/2 chill on the other sidethis way I have the right chill for turkey or grouse with me. the spring turkey hunt is right around the corner get out there and get it done.

[Darto]

Regarding shooting dimes in 12 guage. In the movie about Billy the Kid starring Kriss Khristopherson , Billy does just that for firing on a deputy Sheriff in order to make his escape from jail 

[sonny]

I have made heavy cardboard wad that was just enough  length to hold the 1 1/8 oz of #5 with 70 grains 2f. I used the writing paper tablet backs. I formed it around a tube to just fit the bore of my 16 gauge, an formed round disk to fit inside the cup. I cut an X in the cup bottom to fold an glue the cardboard disk inside the folded, glued wings of the cup at its bottom. At 30 yrds with a cylinder 42" smoothbore barrel, I was able to keep 22 shot inside a turkey silhouette picture. I will now try the load with 1f powder to see if I can improve on that...................sonny 

[Mike Brooks]

Tried this 2 or 3 decades ago. Very inconsistent results. Could work on one shot and not the next. If I'm going to shoot a lot of shot I get the barrel jugged.