musket caps problems

[gumboman]

I recently finished a big bore underhammer rifle. Original intent was to use musket caps and have fired more than 100 rounds with them. But always have a problem with nipple and flash channel clogging up causing missfires. After 5-6 rounds I have to remove the nipple and or run a cleaning brush down bore into the flash channel to clean it out. After cleaning will clog again in 5-6 shots.

Since this is my first attempt at using musket caps, I wonder if this is common amoung all brands of musket caps. They are reenactor caps made by CCI. Love the flange as they make taking fired caps off easy as well as non fired caps. But the clogging is a real pain.

#11 percussion caps do not do this. Can shoot 50 rounds no problem.

Is this the nature of musket caps? Does anyone else have similar problems with musket caps? Could it be the brand? Does anyone have a different experience with other brands?

Thanks for any advice.

[blaksmth]

What If any advantage is there to musket caps? I am just wondering, I would think you would get a lot more blow back  through such a large nipple.  Could this maybe the cause of your problem? 

  Are you shooting a large charge of powder? and if so what kind of powder ( ie 1F,2ff ect) ?

 I never had a problem with CCI  No 11 caps, I allways build the nipple with a notch filed in it to bust the caps so they come off easy on my mule ear and other rifles.

 I am just wondering?

 

[Artificer]

I worked NSSA guns from 1974 to around 2004 at the Spring and Fall Nationals.  I reenacted the UnCivil war from 1980-88.  What I and most shooters and reenactors always thought were The BEST musket caps were those from RWS/Dynamit Nobel.  For all those years, Navy Arms musket caps were made by them and virtually everyone thought they were the best caps made.  I've heard the wingless RWS caps work just as well and come off the cone/nipple as easy as the winged ones.  Not sure about that as I have only used one brand of wingless musket caps and they DID come off easily, but just were not quite as hot as the RWS caps.  

If your cone/nipple is clogging every 5 to 6 rounds, it REALLY sounds like you have a bad or worn out cone/nipple that needs replacing NOW.  Unfortunately, most people shoot way too many rounds from a cone/nipple before they replace it and then usually have this problem.  

Here are a few links you might find interesting.  

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?211507-Navy-arms-wing-musket-caps

http://civilwartalk.com/threads/cci-4-wing-musket-caps.91330/

http://www.n-ssa.org/vbforum/showthread.php/3947-Online-Musket-Cap-Sales

When I was the Team Armourer for the U.S. International Muzzleloading Team, I TRIED to get everyone to put a NEW cone/nipple in their percussioan rifles and shotguns just long enough before going to Regional or World Championship shoots, that they would have time to verify their powder charge was still good and shot the correct group size  Well........... some of even the more experienced shooters did not do that.  One of best Lady shooters freaked out when she only had one practice day at Wedgnock, UK before she had to shoot for record and her cone/nipple went bad..  No, she had not changed the nipple in her rifle for about a year and it went...... well, BELLY up right then.  Grin.  Of course, she did not even HAVE a spare nipple for her rifle with her.  FORTUNATELY I had brought along various sized nipples/cones and one worked fine in her original rifle.  AFTER she practice fired with it, it did not change her group size and AFTER she had settled down, I reminded her I had tried to get everyone to put a new cone/nipple in their rifles................

Gus

[Artificer]

Oh, I DO have to mention that even a NEW cone/nipple MAY not have a good vent hole in it.  When I carried cones/nipples for revolvers and muskets, I ALWAYS looked at each and every one when I bought them to ensure I got good ones.

Gus

[blaksmth]

I ment the hammer instead of nipple my bad

[heelerau]

 I have used R&WS musket caps, and Parker Hale musket caps, never had a problem with misfires unless I did not wipe out the bore and snap a couple through before loading to make shure the sinusses were all clear !!
 Gus must admit to being a bit slack in the cone replacement bussiness re muskets and rifles, although have just replaced all the cones in my cap and balls, much more reliable now !
Cheers

gordon

[Artificer]

What If any advantage is there to musket caps? I am just wondering, I would think you would get a lot more blow back  through such a large nipple.  Could this maybe the cause of your problem? 

  Are you shooting a large charge of powder? and if so what kind of powder ( ie 1F,2ff ect) ?

 I never had a problem with CCI  No 11 caps, I allways build the nipple with a notch filed in it to bust the caps so they come off easy on my mule ear and other rifles.

 I am just wondering?
 

The advantage is you get more flame from a musket cap to set off the powder more reliably and uniformly and  MAYBE a tiny increase in accuracy. 

The disadvantage is you have a larger vent hole in the musket cone/nipple, so you are going to get more pressure blowback.  So if your mainspring isn't very strong and or your hammer is not very big, it will throw the hammer back further and MAY even cause it to catch on half cock at times, which is NOT a good thing.

Gus

[Artificer]

I have used R&WS musket caps, and Parker Hale musket caps, never had a problem with misfires unless I did not wipe out the bore and snap a couple through before loading to make shure the sinusses were all clear !!
 Gus must admit to being a bit slack in the cone replacement bussiness re muskets and rifles, although have just replaced all the cones in my cap and balls, much more reliable now !
Cheers

gordon

Got a kick out of the way you described it in the emboldened sentence.  GRIN. 

Almost every Spring or Fall Nationals, at least one shooter brought up some kind of Minie' Ball Rifled Gun with a cone/nipple that was so worn it would not set off the main charge reliably OR was rusted in place, if an Iron or Steel cone/nipple.  The WORST ones were when they did that to an original cone/nipple in an original gun.  Then they were almost welded in place. 

Gordon, don't know if you can get the bronze/Ampco Musket Nipples/Cones down your way, but if you can, I MOST highly recommend them for shooting even if not HC.
Gus.

[Scota4570]

Get some RWS caps.  The Reenactor caps are weak.

http://www.n-ssa.org/vbforum/archive/index.php/t-3425.html?s=2124ebc701197a760a63607b24dd4e13

[hanshi]

Get some RWS caps.  The Reenactor caps are weak.

http://www.n-ssa.org/vbforum/archive/index.php/t-3425.html?s=2124ebc701197a760a63607b24dd4e13

Agreed!

[Daryl]

Currently using wingless RWS percussion caps in my Model1863 Rebel Musketoon(brass furniture). This Musketoon has a .574" bore with rifling depth at the muzzle at .003" deep for all 5 grooves. The rifling depth at the breech is .011".  I was concerned at first that the deeper groo ves at the breech would allow flame to burn my patches - I submit the balls MUST be obturating as they actually seam to seal the gasses behind them - recovered patches are perfect - re-usable and do not even show scorching along the groove marks. Accuracy is 3"(5 shot groups) at 100 yards off the bags - which surprised me due to the short sight radius with the military sights. I shoot 85gr. 2F GOEX with a 10 ounce denim patch - or the .023" 'railroad' mattress ticking.

I initially started off shooting a .575" ball, but they were a big snug in the .574" bore with the 10 ounce denim patch as you can well imagine.  Note, 10 ounce, not 10 thou.
My .570 mould, which case .574" balls, would just pass into the bore at the muzzle. A friend's .575" Shilo mould cast balls that would all sit on top of the crown.
I've never had a misfire with that little gun, nor clogged nipple passage. I never expect to.  I shoot from 50 to 100 shots in a day, no wiping- ever while shooting. I currently use a .562" ball with the same 10 ounce denim or .023" 'railroad' mattress ticking patch.

[Daryl]

Gumbowman- if you are wiping your bore between shots, or every 3 or more shots, you are probably pushing fouling down into the flash channel, blocking it.

Lean to use a substantial patch with short starter along with a water based lube for target shooting and you will not have to wipe the bore while shooting - no matter how many shots. If fouling builds in the bore - 1 or 2 things wrong - patch is too thin, or not enough lube.

[Scota4570]

I am 99.99% sure the re-enactor caps are the problem.  Research and feedback shows they are trash. 

I am not good about cleaning the breach of oil before I shoot.  I also store my guns muzzle up.  #11 caps can be iffy.  Some of my musket caps are on the weak side and not very reliable.  RWS caps are very powerfull and sure fire.  They are almost like a shotshell primer.

The most obvious problem here is the caps.  Try good caps and I can with near certainty say that the problem will go away.  Really!    IF it does not you have eliminated a tangable factor. 

I bought my last couple of tins at a Gander Mountain a couple months back.  They should be easily available.

[gumboman]

Thanks to all who provided feedback. Seems like the consensus is the quality of the CCI caps could be my problem. Will try the RWS musket caps. I hope those work out as I really like the fit and feel of the larger flanged cap for my big bore underhammer.