Author Topic: Green finish (Read 11285 times)

Varmintmist · « **on:** February 17, 2014, 11:40:28 PM »

I was at the 18th century artisans show in Lewisburg and I saw 2 flintlocks that caught my eye because of the color. They were grass green.
The middle one in the photo is one of them. I didnt even realize that the wife was taking pictures with her cell. I cleaned the picture up the best that I can and although the green doesnt stand out as much as it did in person, you can still get the idea.

The question is, what would make that color? The other green one I saw gave me the idea that it is a mistake because it was mostly green with some brown patches.

I dont think I would go for the look,,,, maybe. It is certainly different and if its is a example of a mistake made in the 1740's, it might be fun.

smart dog · « **Reply #1 on:** February 17, 2014, 11:47:52 PM »

Hi,
I assume they were contemporary guns. My guess is that they were stained with chromium trioxide, which sometimes turns green.

dave

t.caster · « **Reply #2 on:** February 18, 2014, 12:07:33 AM »

Yep, I had that green experience with "Magic Maple" (chro-trioxide) on a couple pistols long ago. It happens when you don't neutralize the acid stain with baking soda solution.

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #3 on:** February 18, 2014, 12:54:39 AM »

Yup. Chromium Trioxide.

I used it diluted, which made a lovely brown, however after a short period of time, the gun had turned bright green. Made me sick to look at it.

Chuck Dixon told me my mistake was to dilute it. It should be used full strength.

I won't use it anymore. Aqua fortis forever.

Keb · « **Reply #4 on:** February 18, 2014, 01:20:45 AM »

I had an ash trade gun looked like someone spilled Mountain Dew on. I scraped it off and used aqua fortis

homerifle · « **Reply #5 on:** February 18, 2014, 01:50:27 AM »

There seemed to be a lot of green rifles floating around in the 70's. I think the stain by choice at that time was mostly "Magic Mountain."

okawbow · « **Reply #6 on:** February 18, 2014, 06:16:30 AM »

I've stained about a dozen maple stocks, and many other wood items with CRO3, over the past 40 years. I have used it in strength from very diluted to strong enough to turn the wood black. I have never neutralized the wood after treatment. I have never had the slightest green occur. I have also always used boiled linseed oil on the wood as soon as the stain was dry. I don't recommend using CRO3, because of the health problems it is known to cause with long term use; but with precautions like rubber gloves and respirators, I still feel safe with it.

I feel there must be a different cause for the green, that just the CRO3. It could be the water it is mixed with, or even the local maple wood has a mineral in it that causes the green when exposed to the acid.

SANY0054 by okawbow, on Flickrs

Stophel · « **Reply #7 on:** February 18, 2014, 06:27:59 AM »

I remember many years ago as a teenager seeing my dad's boss' mid- to late-19th century small caliber percussion long rifle with a long brass tube scope mounted on it. The stock was maple and green as a pea.

Frenchy · « **Reply #8 on:** February 18, 2014, 10:33:37 AM »

I had a stock go 'green' on me a couple of yrs ago. I was using Laurel Mt. stains. One color over the top of another to get a dark red/ brown. I tested this on scraps and got a beautiful rich color. When I did the stock, it dried to that horrible greenish color, I removed as much as I could with acetone.
Then, lightly re-stained it. Never did get the color I wanted but at least it's not green!
I still don't know what went wrong. I've always had good results with Laurel Mt. stains.

mikeyfirelock · « **Reply #9 on:** February 18, 2014, 04:43:30 PM »

I recently refinished a flintlock that I built in the 1970's and finished with chromium trioxide. It too was green: a sort of greenish cast, but definitely green. I sanded the whole thing off and restained with vinegaroon. Seen a couple of others same way, from the same time period.
Mikeyfirelock

A.Merrill · « **Reply #10 on:** February 18, 2014, 05:51:12 PM »

Aqua fortis will often turn green when it first dries then you heat it to make turn brown. Look up my old post . ( it turned green ). Al

Dphariss · « **Reply #11 on:** February 18, 2014, 08:12:03 PM »

Ferric Nitrate is the right color, its permanent and its correct in almost any context on an American rifle. So using modern stuff or especially synthetic stuff is not something I am interested in. I can't see a maker in 1780 jumping through the hoops people do today to get some color they think they just have to have. Then finish it with plastic that LOOKS like plastic when its done. I just don't get it. They then say how easy it is to put on 3-4 coat of stain and 5-40 coats of finish? This is not easy to me.

Dan

paa · « **Reply #12 on:** February 19, 2014, 02:16:41 AM »

I too, have noticed green stocks - the last on a really nice double rifle (side by side) by Dave Arnold (past president of the NMLRA). I asked him how he had achieved such a nice green, camo, stock colour. He told me, quite seriously, that he had used Chromic acid, and seemed to believe that the green stock was OK, historically. I ran, real fast. I have done Nitric Acid, and a bunch of others. Lately, I can achieve what I want with Laurel Mt. Forge stain - not quitwe as authentic, but good enough for most. Regards, Peter A. Alexander

aaronc · « **Reply #13 on:** February 19, 2014, 04:10:53 AM »

I have yet to do a rifle but my plan is to get a high quality "kit" with quality components later this year and began the process. I hadn't had much experience as a wood finisher and have been practicing on old tools this past summer to develop my skills. I actually started with the chromium trioxide, have worked in some homer dangler as well but all of the following have at least a base stain of chromium trioxide on it. I will also try the aqua fortis for sure and will probably use it on the rifle, just haven't got that far yet. Anyway, not sure when the "green effect" happens but all of these pieces still look as they do in the pics.

JCKelly · « **Reply #14 on:** February 19, 2014, 05:23:36 AM »

Stop by your local art supply and look at a tube of chrome oxide green oil paint.
Chromium oxide makes that nice green color you see in paint, whether house paint or artists oils.
Or gunstocks, once that pretty red carcinogenic hexavalent chromium has oxidized whatever organic material it contacts.
Ask a chemist.

Old Bob · « **Reply #15 on:** February 19, 2014, 05:29:22 AM »

I remember back in the late '70's seeing a real nice fullstock Hawken in the old Colonial Gun Shop in Hurricane, WV. I can't remember who built it, but after hanging on the rack a few weeks it turned quite green at least on the side facing out. The other side was a beautiful reddish brown. We discussed the cause and after looking things over we noticed that the furnace was exposed to the sun for a good part of the day. I'm not sure whether AF or a chromium based stain was used, but whichever it was, it reacted with sunlight, possibly because it wasn't neutralized properly. About 25 years ago I bought a John Hall Dickert that had a green as grass stock. Within a few days I had it sanded and restained. I'm not a fan of green gunstocks.

Dphariss · « **Reply #16 on:** February 19, 2014, 07:37:04 AM »

Ferric Nitrate (AF) is not reactive to sunlight it is colorfast.

Dan

Dphariss · « **Reply #17 on:** February 19, 2014, 07:43:23 AM »

Quote from: aaronc on February 19, 2014, 04:10:53 AM

I have yet to do a rifle but my plan is to get a high quality "kit" with quality components later this year and began the process. I hadn't had much experience as a wood finisher and have been practicing on old tools this past summer to develop my skills. I actually started with the chromium trioxide, have worked in some homer dangler as well but all of the following have at least a base stain of chromium trioxide on it. I will also try the aqua fortis for sure and will probably use it on the rifle, just haven't got that far yet. Anyway, not sure when the "green effect" happens but all of these pieces still look as they do in the pics.

Considering the work needed to make a gunstock and get it ready for staining and the decades or longer trail of green gunstocks associated with chrome its not worth the risk. When there is a 100% color fast, relatively easy to use traditional stain its a no brainer for me. I don't even think of anything else.

Dan

aaronc · « **Reply #18 on:** February 19, 2014, 04:58:58 PM »

Quote from: Dphariss on February 19, 2014, 07:43:23 AM

Quote from: aaronc on February 19, 2014, 04:10:53 AM
I have yet to do a rifle but my plan is to get a high quality "kit" with quality components later this year and began the process. I hadn't had much experience as a wood finisher and have been practicing on old tools this past summer to develop my skills. I actually started with the chromium trioxide, have worked in some homer dangler as well but all of the following have at least a base stain of chromium trioxide on it. I will also try the aqua fortis for sure and will probably use it on the rifle, just haven't got that far yet. Anyway, not sure when the "green effect" happens but all of these pieces still look as they do in the pics.

Considering the work needed to make a gunstock and get it ready for staining and the decades or longer trail of green gunstocks associated with chrome its not worth the risk. When there is a 100% color fast, relatively easy to use traditional stain its a no brainer for me. I don't even think of anything else.

Dan

Yes I agree, I was going to try it out and see how it compared anyway but after reading all this AF will be my gunstock stain.

Best -Aaron

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #19 on:** February 19, 2014, 05:36:50 PM »

stain a piece of scrap with chromium trioxide. cover one part up with light-proof paper or tape. Put the piece in the sunlight for a number of days. Then peel the shader off and see if there is any color difference.

Going green may be a reaction to chemicals in the wood, as someone before has mentioned, or chems in the water you whisker the stock with, or in the finish you're using. I don't know. I've had one gun go green, and now it's AF for me. It is permanent and light fast.

Tom

aaronc · « **Reply #20 on:** February 19, 2014, 05:59:55 PM »

I'll try that this summer. I have a few projects coming up which I'll get some scrap out of. I already have an old Appalachian maple chair that has the first coat of chromium triox on it. After I finish it out that will probably be it for me. Too many unknowns best I can tell.,..............I mean if it is something in the wood then how the heck wood you ever know

Any given piece could go green. As previously stated it's too much work in a project only to have it go to $#*! because of taking chances on the finish/stain ,..I love the look of the Aqua F as well, seen plenty of it on here that is awesome. For whatever reason I just happened to start experimenting with something else.

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #21 on:** February 19, 2014, 06:15:58 PM »

Like I said, I don't know the cause of Chromium going green. Some folks have great results, and some horrible.

I saw a beautiful, and I mean perfect, New England Townshend Highboy in curly maple that had gone green. Heartbreaking.

aaronc · « **Reply #22 on:** February 19, 2014, 06:17:45 PM »

That's the scary part,.................and it would be my luck. lol

Old Bob · « **Reply #23 on:** February 20, 2014, 03:56:42 AM »

Quote from: Acer Saccharum on February 19, 2014, 06:15:58 PM

Like I said, I don't know the cause of Chromium going green. Some folks have great results, and some horrible.

I saw a beautiful, and I mean perfect, New England Townshend Highboy in curly maple that had gone green. Heartbreaking.

I don't know either, but something about sitting in the sun sure turned that Hawken green. It's actually a rather attractive shade of green but on a gunstock it just ain't right!

Mikeh · « **Reply #24 on:** February 20, 2014, 01:12:07 PM »

Use distilled water with the crystals. No need to neutralize. Stocks will not turn green. Get very nice color.

Mikeh

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Author Topic: Green finish (Read 11285 times)

Varmintmist

Frenchy

paa

Old Bob

Old Bob