Ramrods: Alternatives to hickory?

[BillOregon]

I suppose it is possible that rifle builders and sellers in the 19th century trans-Mississippi West sent for hickory ramrods or splits from back East, but surely there were other woods almost as good as hickory that served well as ramrods. But what tree species?

[necchi]

Spruce, Cedar,,
Hickory is of course straight gained and strong.
Some other woods are just as straight grained, but lack the strength,, That would be alright of itself, but folks would need be aware of what they had and how they're using it.
Heck a green swamp willow will do the job, but like all of'm it's going to break sooner or later. And in the case of a ramrod later is much better.

[okawbow]

Osage orange will make the strongest ramrod, even better than hickory. The problem is finding a straight enough piece, and then getting it worked down to a usable rod. Ash splits out nicely, but is not as strong and flexible as hickory.

[Bill Paton]

Baleen was used in some high end European fowlers as rammers. It makes up the plastic-like plates lined with filter hairs inside a baleen whale's mouth for filtering plankton for their food. Big ones from an Alaskan bowhead whale may be 12 or more feet long, 8 or more inches wide at the base, and 3/8" thick at the base, tapering out from there. Although commonly called "whalebone", it is more like horn and is not a bone derivative at all. In the mid 1800's, it was easily available in San Francisco from the Alaskan whaling industry, and was used extensively as stays sewn into lady's corsets. Does anybody know of baleen used for rammers in America? Bill Paton

[Hungry Horse]

 What do you mean they got the baleen from the Alaskan whaling industry? the American whaling fleet sailed out of New England in the mid 1800's and made its new home port  Benicia California. Should have been plenty of baleen available for ramrods.
 One of the high end late 1800's double barreled muzzleloaders in a friends collection has a rosewood ramrod.

                      Hungry Horse

[oldfox]

What about Hornbeam?  ...strong and dense

[Kermit]

Purpleheart has been mentioned, I think. And I've wondered about ipe.

[Bill Paton]

I've tried IPE for children's bows in ramrod thicknesses and found it quite brittle, even with very straight grain. It splits easily when bent, and has sharp, stiff splinters when it does, which was a disappointment for the kids, but could be tragic for a ML shooter. Probably should try something else.

[Dphariss]

I suppose it is possible that rifle builders and sellers in the 19th century trans-Mississippi West sent for hickory ramrods or splits from back East, but surely there were other woods almost as good as hickory that served well as ramrods. But what tree species?

Not that I know of.

Dan

[Jerry V Lape]

I would assume the mountain men would have made replacements from whatever wood was available in their vicinity.  How were the plains rifles equipped - were they generally setup with larger diameter rods (1/2")?  That might make sense if durability were built into the ramrod as it was in the stock?

[Bill Paton]

What do you mean they got the baleen from the Alaskan whaling industry? the American whaling fleet sailed out of New England in the mid 1800's and made its new home port  Benicia California. Should have been plenty of baleen available for ramrods.
                    Hungry Horse

Oh, Hungry Horse in California!

Rest assured there was no intent to offend you . You are correct as to where the whalers came from, and the old photos of thousands of plates of baleen on wharfs in California were probably taken at Benicia ( which is "very close" to San Francisco Bay, as you know). As to "Alaskan whaling industry", my mammalian genes make the common term "whale fishery" unpleasant to my ears. And the New England and Benicia based whalers flocking to Alaskan waters in the mid 19th century were really early "factory ships" whose "industry" was capturing whales and processing them into products which were raw materials for many other industries. The big, lucrative, (and tasty, I might add) Bowhead whales with the fantastically large and profitable baleen were captured off the North coast of Alaska and processed there. Alaska Natives still hunt them for subsistence and use the baleen for art. Ramrods made out of it are elegant and very functional. I still would love to know if any original American guns were made with Baleen rods. I have a 19th century English FL fowler  re-stocked in the late 20th century and it has a new baleen rammer, but it is not a 19th C rod. Thank you for your clarifications, Hungry Horse.  

Yours,  Bill Paton in Alaska

[BillOregon]

Dan: Kind of what I was afraid of. There are plenty of species here in the West that yield beautiful, straight grain wood  -- here in Oregon, Port Orford cedar, spruce and old growth Douglas fir leap to mind -- but nothing comes close to the strength of hickory that I know of. Running a broken ramrod though my palm is waaay down my list of desirable things to accomplish.

[Jerry V Lape]

What about some of the live oak varieties, mesquite (if you can find a straight piece long enough), California Laurel, Myrtle and possibly Aspen which would be straight and long enough but I don't know how strong it would be.  I will give mesquite a try to see how it compares.  Ironwood should be good if I can find a lengthy straight piece. 

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

When I made my personal Hawken rifle a couple years ago, I made a replacement rod for it out of Osage Orange.  The main rod was of hickory.  Both are 1/2" tapered to 3/8" so neither is in much danger of being broken, but when I made them, I stained them both at the same time, and now, I can't tell which is which.  If anything, the osage rod is stronger and more flexible.

I have used hardware store doweling made from Ramin, in big diameters, when hickory was unavailable, and it works fine if not subjected to abuse.  It tends to break straight across when it goes.

[Artificer]

Dan: Kind of what I was afraid of. There are plenty of species here in the West that yield beautiful, straight grain wood  -- here in Oregon, Port Orford cedar, spruce and old growth Douglas fir leap to mind -- but nothing comes close to the strength of hickory that I know of. Running a broken ramrod though my palm is waaay down my list of desirable things to accomplish.

I remember back in the 60's that Port Orford Cedar was highly recommended for arrow shafts.  I owned a few dozen and they stood up to abuse pretty well when we often missed the hay bales used as a target back stop.  Not sure if they would work for a ramrod, but perhaps in a pinch?

Guis

[smylee grouch]

My H. Holland 13 ga. double has a ebony ramrod if I'm not mistaken, but I dought if it went trans-misissippi west. There probably probably wasnt too many ebony trees in the west but visiting european sportsmen probably had extra rods in their kits.

[Dphariss]

I would assume the mountain men would have made replacements from whatever wood was available in their vicinity.  How were the plains rifles equipped - were they generally setup with larger diameter rods (1/2")?  That might make sense if durability were built into the ramrod as it was in the stock?

They carried a wiping stick IN THE BORE in many instances. Good hickory rods don't break very often. I have one on a rifle that is probably 30 years old and its still fine. But today getting a good rod requires buying at least 10 unless you can hand pick it in person from a large bundle.

Dan

[smallpatch]

I gotta agree with Taylor on the Osage.
Probably the BEST wood for primitive bows, just gotta make a great ramrod.

[Kermit]

Maybe other bow woods? Hickory and ash, of course. Yew?

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

The thing about hickory and osage too, is that it can be (accidentally) bent further than perhaps all other woods before it fractures, and then more or less straightens out again.  Yew is the hardest and most flexible of the soft woods (conifers) and would work in a pinch or in a gun where the rod was large in diameter.  Other native woods that make good bows, such as hop hornbeam, white oak, and even maple, when the grain is followed religiously, would make serviceable ramrods.  But hardware doweling of these woods, is not very good.

[cmac]

Steel or brass

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Yes, a metal rod works fine.  When I made my Jaeger rifle in '96, I fitted a 3/8 hickory rod.  But the rifle was so light in the muzzle, and my primary use of the rifle was for trail matches and target shooting, with hunting only a couple weeks in the fall.  So I made a rod out of 3/8" rill rod, fitted it with brass ends, and that gave me the weight I liked.  Also, the rod was so stiff that loading was a breeze.  The hickory rod worked very well for hunting, and never let me down...still going strong.

[Habu]

My shotgun currently has an ash ramrod; the "original" was one someone had carved out of pine.  It is holding up well, but I'll never trust it as much as a hickory rod.  I've got a bunch of osage on hand, I should give that a try (but probably won't until the ash gives up the ghost). 

[dlbarr]

Yes, a metal rod works fine.  When I made my Jaeger rifle in '96, I fitted a 3/8 hickory rod.  But the rifle was so light in the muzzle, and my primary use of the rifle was for trail matches and target shooting, with hunting only a couple weeks in the fall.  So I made a rod out of 3/8" rill rod, fitted it with brass ends, and that gave me the weight I liked.  Also, the rod was so stiff that loading was a breeze.  The hickory rod worked very well for hunting, and never let me down...still going strong.

Likewise, Taylor, I had a smoothbore at one time that came with a ramin rod which broke rather quickly. I replaced that with a hickory rod which, unfortunately, I had to reduce the diameter from 3/8 in order to fit the smaller pipes. That rod didn't break but did begin to fracture. I finally made a metal rod fitted with brass ends and a jag. That actually allowed me a bit steadier hold which I liked.

[Chuck Burrows]

In some of the RMFT era journals it si noted that when going west they would stop to cut extra wiping sticks/ramrods around the Council Grove, Kansas are since it was the last place to get the proper materials.

On the other hand I had good lick using red willow (red ozier which grows along most plains/Rocky Mtn stream banks ) shoots as a wiping stick. When I lived on the Pacific Northwest coast I used some vine maple shoots. Cut green and dried properly (which is pretty quick in the dry west) these shoots stay flexible and since the wood is "in the round" rather than being split out of a larger piece they don't have a tendency to break easily.
Like many of the mountain men of old I usually have a thimble rod (period term for the regular ramrod) as well as carrying a wiping stick in the bore - if you take a look at the A. J Miller prints of the time you can often see these being carried in the bore and they usually have a couple of thongs dangling at the front - this type wiping stick is also mentioned by G. F. Ruxton and others - Ruxton noted that the wiping stick was at times used like a uni-pod for shooting and it does work. Heck the shoots are even pre-tapered!