Barrel Identification

[Ray Pennington]

Gentlemen, I'm new here but I just bought a W.M. large barrel with the following markings; W.M. large, under that is J.J.J.J., then under that is the letter "L", the barrel is 37 1/2 " from muzzle to breach,  1" across the flats, I think a 54 Cal, not cut for sights and no barrel tangs for stock mounting, also a steel hammer with the letter "L".  I would like to build this gun and needs info, thanks

Regards
Ray Pennington
South Point, Ohio

[rich pierce]

What more do you need to know?  It's a Bill Large barrel.  The J's are for his daughters names or something like that.

[oldone]

Nothing like a smart answer for someone seeking info.

[Shovelbuck]

From what I understand, the "L" indicates match grade. It also will have radiused lands

[Dennis Glazener]

From what I understand, the "L" indicates match grade. It also will have radiused lands

If you are referring to Rich'S answer about the J's on the Bill Large barrel, is was not meant to be a wisecrack, its true,  The J's had someghing to do eith his daughters.
Dennis

[Bill of the 45th]

Old One, Rich wasn't giving a smart answer.  The only thing we could Tell Ray, besides him being a Very Lucky Guy to have a Bill Large barrel is how to tell the barrel twist, which is to run a tightly patched rod down the barrel, mark top flat on the rod, then pull it out 1/4 turn.  Measure the distance it came out and multiply by four.  Well many of us regulars pick on one another, we certainly don't get smart with new guys, until we know you a bit.  We welcome new members, and believe there are almost no dumb questions.

Bill

[Stoner creek]

JJJJ L were the later barrels. He started out with a simple WL stamp on the barrel. Bill nicknamed a bunch of his later barrels. It's a real treat to find one of Bills nicknamed barrels. I know of one locally named "hornet".

[jamesthomas]

 Well, it sounds to me that he has a real nice barrel! Where did you find it Mr. Pennington?

[Gene Carrell]

I've an England built plains type halfstock with one of Bill Large's barrels. A 45cal and you could not ask for a better shooting rifle.

[mountainman70]

Nice to know brother Bills legendary barls' are still coming out of the proverbial woodwork,'specially over in the Buckeye.
Ever now and then one or a hoard of Bills barrels come out to haint us,or just plain amaze us.I reckon you can find a good style rifle to build that gem into.Lots of good info and skills on here,neighbor,all ya gotta do is ask.btw,the 4 J's are Bills daughters.He was a good friend.The only copy of Muzzleblasts I have kept is the one of him on the cover,the memorial issue.Cheers,Dave

[Mark Elliott]

Ray,

I may be wrong, but I get he feeling that you think there is a specific gun to which that barrel belongs.    If that is the case,  there isn't.   It is just a 20th century made barrel by one of the pioneers of the contemporary muzzle loading movement.    You didn't say if the barrel was straight or swamped.   If straight,  at that length,  I am not exactly what you could use it for that would be close to historically correct.   I suspect that is why it isn't already in a rifle.  I guess you could kinda fudge a transitional rifle (1760-1770) out of it or maybe a mid 19th century half stock.    I am sure others will have some ideas.

[Ray Pennington]

Like I said gentlemen, I am new to this gun area of the building of muzzleloaders but have been and avid hunter and collector of modern firearms for many many years.  To the "smart guy", sorry I asked such a ignorant question to someone so intelligent as not to share his tremendous knowledge to someone who would like to join and be a part of something so great as to keep the old traditions alive!!! To the rest of you I really appreciate the time and effort of you helping me and giving me guidance.

[James Rogers]

Ray and oldone... welcome......but please do a search for Mr. Pierce's posts and I think you'll find you have the wrong end of the stick : )

[rich pierce]

  To the "smart guy", sorry I asked such a ignorant question to someone so intelligent as not to share his tremendous knowledge to someone who would like to join and be a part of something so great as to keep the old traditions alive!!!

Ray, I can be a smart guy, but this time when I asked, "What more do you need to know"?, I actually wanted an answer.  I was not sure what was unclear.  The J's?  The L?  It was a legit question.  We still don't know what more you want to know.  Value? Quality?  You stated that it is a Wm Large barrel.  Do you want more information on Bill Large?

[galudwig]

There was a pretty good discussion about Bill Large barrels in 2009 here on the forum:

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=8007.0

galudwig

[Steve-In]

Ray you could make a fullstock flint "Hawken" with that barrel or a more challenging Halfstock Hawken.  It should end up weighing somewhere around 9 or 10 pounds depending on wood used.  .54 makes an awesome deer rifle. 
Welcome to the American Longrifles.  This is like carrying on a conversation with a room full of experts.  They all can contribute loads but sometimes require patience.

[Bob Roller]

A large percentage of the barrels Bill Large made were for mid 19th century half stocks,Ohio guns as Bill some times called them. I was give the first octagon barrel that Bill made after he got the big shop into operation and it was a 33"x1" 58 caliber that I built into a silver trimmed Northeastern style rifle,inspired by some of the rifles in Major Roberts book,The Muzzle Loading Caplock Rifle.This was a match winner and I used it for about 4 years before selling it along with others.
The first "historically correct"rifles I remember seeing were the the Hawken copies made by Tom Dawson and Ed White.This was in the late 1960's. Ed White was from El Dorado,Illinois and lived only until 1971. I made locks for him on plates that he had made in a local trade school and while at the Spring Shoot at Friendship in 1971 he told me that he'd send some more plates after he got past a gall bladder operation. It was not gall bladder but a lethal cancer that spread like wildfire after the incision was made.He passed two weeks later.
Historically correct was NOT part of the equation with Bill or anyone else for the most part.The musket barrels he made were 8 grooves like the octagon barrels and were finally accepted by the NSSA as replacements for rusted and shot out relics.
Today we are blessed with a number of exceptional craftsmen that can reproduce to near perfection the rifles and pistols of the early America that we so revere. I am glad to see this and to still be able to a small degree participate in it.

Bob Roller

[Ray Pennington]

Mr. Pierce; I apologize if I took your post the wrong way.  I am a beginner in building a good rifle, my Dad & I was in Bills shop & home many times when I was a very young child just visiting & nothing to do about his barrels, Dad was just friends with Bill & he would show Dad all the machine work he was doing at the time.  His daughter taught me in the 5th grade I believe,  Anyway, my friend & I would like to build this gun, again we are NOT professionals like you guys.  Ok.......... I assume that swamped means the barrel is swayed down on top?   If so it is not.  Does not have the sights cut in or barrel mounting tangs ( I'll try to attach a few pictures!!  Is this a "bench" barrel? My friend says it is? I don't know & if it really makes any difference?  Can I use the hammer I have?   I also got with barrel a very rough half stock, it looks too short? Again I don't know?   Should I get a better or longer stock?  A steel butt & a steel trigger guard, should I use these or buy brass ones?  Also the worth of the barrel?  I didn't pay to much for these items.
Regards;
Ray Pennington

[Ray Pennington]

Thanks Mr. Roller,  I also sent you a PM a couple of days ago,  I have heard so much about your locks & triggers!!! Do you still live close to South Point, Ohio?

Thanks to all others too for all the help!!  Would like to know where to get locks, triggers, butt plates, guards, etc& etc!! Lol

I will add pics of  the barrel if someone will tell me how??

[Ray Pennington]

To James e.;  I bought the barrel, hammer, half stock, butt plate & trigger guard from a man here in South Point, Ohio, said he had these items for 30+ years.

[little joe]

What more do you need to know?  It's a Bill Large barrel.  The J's are for his daughters names or something like that.

Ray  You are not the only one who did not understand R.P. comment.

[jamesthomas]

To James e.;  I bought the barrel, hammer, half stock, butt plate & trigger guard from a man here in South Point, Ohio, said he had these items for 30+ years.

 It makes you wonder what other barrels, and locks etc. are just leaning up in the corner of someones basement.

[Ray Pennington]

James that is a fact!!!  A friend of mine said a man called him wanting to sell a Bill Large barrel and some other items, but he didn't have the money at the time so he gave me this guys number and I called him and he only lived about 10 minutes away from me so I met him and bought the barrel and all the other items for a really really good price, I think anyway.

[Ray Pennington]

Mr. Roller:  Do you still make and sell locks and triggers?

[Ray Pennington]

Ray you could make a fullstock flint "Hawken" with that barrel or a more challenging Halfstock Hawken.  It should end up weighing somewhere around 9 or 10 pounds depending on wood used.  .54 makes an awesome deer rifle. 
Welcome to the American Longrifles.  This is like carrying on a conversation with a room full of experts.  They all can contribute loads but sometimes require patience.

Thanks Steve for the comments and info.