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Author Topic: bottom pour or dip  (Read 14087 times)

Offline yip

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bottom pour or dip
« on: February 23, 2014, 12:29:14 AM »
 which one bottom pour or dip, which do you guys suggest? I've been dipping for years but want something less messy. any help?
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Online smylee grouch

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Re: bottom pour or dip
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2014, 12:58:37 AM »
I'm a dipper, I usualy have a mess anyway and I think I get more uniform balls when I dip. I tried the bottom pour and it would not seal shut sometimes and empty the whole pot onto my casting bench which just added to the mess.
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Offline Hank*in*WV

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Re: bottom pour or dip
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2014, 01:21:10 AM »
Dip for the same reason as smylee grouch.
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Offline Standing Bear

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Re: bottom pour or dip
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2014, 03:31:52 AM »
Bottom. More control. Leave the thermostat set and no fussing w a burner getting the right temp. I let lead puddle and run off cutter plate to minimize cooling caused cavities.

Cleaning helps a lot. I let the pot get low,pour some ingots and clean the pot including the plug and spout.  Very little problem with dribble or large leak. Occasionally when get dribbles just twist the plug w a screwdriver.
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necchi

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Re: bottom pour or dip
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2014, 05:10:26 AM »
Another Dipper here.
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Offline Cobweb

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Re: bottom pour or dip
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2014, 06:02:38 AM »
Dip out of a bottom pour pot! Sealed it up when we couldn't get it to stop dripping no matter what we tried. Small dipper with the spout. I like the control better and let the lead pile up or run over to help with the air bubbles. Mold .386, .440, .535, and a few .600.
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Offline heelerau

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Re: bottom pour or dip
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2014, 06:35:17 AM »
I used to use a bottom pour lee pot, finally leaked to much, still have it and any suggestions re how to clean or sort the leaks out\\?  I then used a home made bottom pour ladel for years, really good for minnies. Now have a lovely antique lead ladle, probabley for pouring babbet type bearings, and it is good. Would prefer the lee pot for minnies though.
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Offline B.Habermehl

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Re: bottom pour or dip
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2014, 07:08:30 AM »
I have a lee bottom pour pot, yes the drip can be a pain some times, but I can produce good balls whith it. The pot needs drained and thoroughly cleaned on occasion, but it works just fine by me BJH
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Offline Old Ford2

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Re: bottom pour or dip
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2014, 05:33:26 PM »
If you have a Lyman type dipper ( the dipper is ball like with a round tube like spigot), you find that all of your bullets  round ball/conical/bullets are much more consistent .
Especially if the dipper is full with each pour.
I have used a bottom pour for several years, and found that the products were all over the place as far as individual weights were concerned, not to mention the leaking of the pot, the splash burns while pouring.
While casting, if you put your recovery tray just inside a cardboard box turned side ways, most of the sprue cuttings will go in the box, of which you can recover as you take a break in each casting session.
I have found that the ladle type dipper is not as good as the round ball type ladle.
With the bottom pour, and ladle you do not get consistent head on each pour.
The Lyman type dipper is not too good with gang moulds, not enough lead in it.
If you are using gang moulds, I would suppose the bottom pour is better.
I have not seen gang moulds producing consistent results.
I hope this helps.
Fred
« Last Edit: February 23, 2014, 05:39:42 PM by Old Ford2 »
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Offline hanshi

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Re: bottom pour or dip
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2014, 09:56:56 PM »
I'm with Standing Bear.  I've cast countless thousands by dipping and by bottom pour.  I do well using both methods and get fine quality ball/bullet.  Decades ago I settled on bottom pour.  Even with dripping I can cast at a faster rate and get equal quality balls. 
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Offline LH

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Re: bottom pour or dip
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2014, 10:26:17 PM »
I ladle pour so I don't have shrinkage voids.
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Offline Habu

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Re: bottom pour or dip
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2014, 11:17:15 PM »
Either way works, and can produce equally-good results, if you fine-tune your techniques for the method used.  That means some time with a good scale weighing the end-product, and some experimenting (especially with larger/heavier balls).  I'm in the bottom-pour camp, and use an RCBS bottom-pour pot. 
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Offline Kermit

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Re: bottom pour or dip
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2014, 11:44:06 PM »
I still have the Lee bottom pour I bought close to 40 years ago. The dripping turned to a small stream and nothing stopped it until a screw plugged it and I got an old Ideal ball-type ladle. Lyman and RCBS still make 'em, I believe. I can't do anything worthwhile with a spoon-type ladle.

Lee lost me when they dropped single cavity molds. Still use the ones I have, but won't buy doubles.
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Offline yip

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Re: bottom pour or dip
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2014, 11:56:22 PM »
 do you flux the bottom pour? I flux when I dip, but do you flux bottom pour? I heard of guys using kitty litter on top of their lead, to keep heat constant, and being impurities  float to the top no fluxing is necessity. is this true?
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Offline smokinbuck

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Re: bottom pour or dip
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2014, 01:36:08 AM »
I have cast balls both ways. Had a plumbers pot and propane tank set up when I dipped but prefer the bottom pour. I found that if you keep the pot and plunger clean there is a minnimum of dripping. A tuna fish can catches the drip and I put it back into the pot periodicaly I do flux my lead wether dipping or pouring.
Mark
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Mark

Offline b bogart

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Re: bottom pour or dip
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2014, 03:01:26 AM »
Do those roundballs smell like tuna then Mark??? ;) Prelubed with fish oil.
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Offline Habu

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Re: bottom pour or dip
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2014, 03:26:26 AM »
I use a two-stage process to flux the lead.  

First, I refine/conglomerate my various scrap lead to clean it up.  This gets fluxed and stirred several times, before being cast into standard ingots.  Once the lead goes into the casting pot and is melted, I flux with fine sawdust--I use the stuff that accumulates under my bandsaw--and stir.  The sawdust "charcoal" is left on the top of the pot.  I flux again any time I add lead to the pot.

I tend to cast "hot" (800-825 degrees).  Particularly on larger balls or conicals, I have a space of about 1-1.5" between the spout and the sprue plate.  I aim the stream of lead to hit just on the edge of the opening in the sprue plate.  I also leave a sizable sprue on the top of the sprue plate, as a reservoir to be drawn on as the lead in the cavity cools.   This all contributes to consistent mould fill-out and avoiding shrinkage voids.  
« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 03:28:18 AM by Habu »
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Offline smokinbuck

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Re: bottom pour or dip
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2014, 03:48:50 AM »
Bruce,
That's how you can tell your balls from someone else'. Nuff said!
Mark
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Mark

Offline Topknot

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Re: bottom pour or dip
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2014, 04:54:04 AM »
Im a dipper from way back. Molten lead and snuff!

                                               topknot
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dagner

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Re: bottom pour or dip
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2014, 07:01:43 AM »
  THE BEVELS RAN A BUNCH OF TEST ON ROUND BALLS .CAME OUT WAY AHEAD  TO USE DIPPER FOR TARGET BALLS.DON GETZ AND JOHN SAID TAKE ALL THE AUTO POUR  OFF  AND DRILL AND TAP THE BOOTOM PUT ALLEN HEAD SCREW IN .USED IT FOR LOT OF YEARS. NOTHING MAKES YOU MADER THAN HAVE A NICE 15 LBS OF MOTLEN LEAD AND A PIECE OF SLAG GETS CAUGHT IN THE AUTO POUR.WILL NOT LET IT CLOSE. HAD IT HAPPEN WAY TO MANY TIMES.

  DAG
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Offline Dphariss

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Re: bottom pour or dip
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2014, 08:19:27 PM »
Quote from: yip on February 23, 2014, 12:29:14 AM
which one bottom pour or dip, which do you guys suggest? I've been dipping for years but want something less messy. any help?

Far longer life and less problems with a dipper pot.

Better product too.

Dan
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Offline hanshi

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Re: bottom pour or dip
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2014, 10:40:46 PM »
The two Lee bottom pour pots that I use seem to do best when I hold the mould in contact with the spout AND allow a nice puddle to form on the cut-off plate.

Don't use kitty litter to flux - don't believe in fluxing, period - because I don't want my cat near the pot. ;D
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dagner

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Re: bottom pour or dip
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2014, 02:14:56 AM »
i agree with dan .what I use now is a single  cast iron burner that hooks  up to a 20 lb propaine tank. their is a valve on burner to adjust heat.  I brought a 5 inch deep by 10 inch round cast iron pot at swap meet..melts in nothing flat best heat control. had under 45 bucks in the whole thing not counting tank.get your scrap put in flux and you can turn 100 lbs of clean ingots out in nothing flat.another guy I know uses a coleman stove he brought a yard sale. use lyman spout dipper for balls   and a old big lead wippers dipper for ingots.
dag
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Offline wattlebuster

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Re: bottom pour or dip
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2014, 02:37:44 AM »
Got a lee bottom pour. Had it 30 yrs with no trouble to speak of accept when it gets dirty just give it a good clean. When it finally dies I will replace it with another ;D
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Offline Clark Badgett

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Re: bottom pour or dip
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2014, 03:20:47 AM »
Dipper here. Get far smaller weight spreads than back when I bottom poured.
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