Things to see in Europe

[Tony Clark]

I was wondering if anyone could recommend some antique firearm/weapon related things to see in and around Paris, I should have at least a week to spend. I was also considering either a few days in Madrid or heading to Italy, probably Rome but I wouldn't mind going to Florence or Milan either. I'll be traveling alone so pretty much anything would be fair game. Suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks & regards, TC

[mbriggs]

The Museum De Invalids is in Paris and is their National Military Museum. It contains arms and armour back to 1300.  Also there is Napoleon's Grave.  He built the building to be a Soldier's Home for his army.  Aside from that, the French do not have a lot of military history to be proud of.  The French have never won a war when led by a frenchman.  Napoleon was a Corsican. Joan of Arc did lead them to several victories over the English, but she was not a man. I remember when the French refused to join the coalition for the first Gulf War in 1991, Stormin Norman responded, "going to war without the French is like going deer hunting without your accordion."  Another favorite quote was "the only time the French are fans of the U.S. Military is when the German Army is sipping coffee in Paris."  This seems to be true in every area but around Normandy.   

[Tony Clark]

"going to war without the French is like going deer hunting without your accordion."  Another favorite quote was "the only time the French are fans of the U.S. Military is when the German Army is sipping coffee in Paris." 

Hahahahaha,,,,I like those. They made some nice firearms though, got to be somehwere around town there is a few a guy could look at. Those Italians must have some good stuff to but I can't seem to find any museums that indicate they have any in there collections.Thanks & regards, TC

[Rick]

Carry your camera at all times and keep a weather eye for the scrollwork that adorns many of the old buildings in Europe.  It's amazing how much Rococco there is in architecture.  Rick

[PGosnell]

I had the priviledge of touring The War Museum Musée de l'Armée back in '85.  Paris was wonderful and the museum is a must see for anyone interested in military history. I would also recommend the Naval Museum that is adjacent to the Trocadero fountains.  You can see both and the Effiel tower in a day.

About 2.5 hours east of Paris is Verdun and you should visit that as well, it is a humbling experience.
 
Museo del Ejercito in Madrid is wonderful.  And a definite must see.  Plan on seeing the Pardo as well. Has nothing to do with firearms but is definitely an attraction in Madrid.  Again. both can be seen in a day.

Not sure you mentioned Germany and though I have not been there, I would recommend a trip to Suhl. The Gun Making City of Germany.  Closest I came was the border at Fulda and this big barbed wire fence block my view to the east.  But from what I have read Suhl is the gun museum to visit.  http://www.waffenmuseumsuhl.de/

Enjoy your trip.

[mr. no gold]

The Hermitage in Russia should be added to this already august list. There are also arms collections in many of the old castles; Linz in Austria has a full amoury going back to the time of the Crusades. Leige has a fine arms museum containing examples of the many types of firearms produced there. These added to what you already have should occupy your time for weeks, if not months. Like most of us though, you probably have only days to spend.
Enjoy the trip and holler when you get back.
Dick

[Jerry V Lape]

I still think the reason so many French dislike Americans is because their American Grandfathers and Fathers went home and left them in France after two world wars.   It is a family thing!   

[famouseagle]

The Armory museum in Copenhagen has a jaw-dropping collection of antique and modern weapons from highly decorated pistols to cannon.

[M Tornichio]

I know of one place that I that I have personally seen. If you ever make it over to Venice, Italy go to the Doge Palace. It is located right off of San Marco Square. Take the behind the scenes tour. When I lived there for a a short while I was able to take this tour. We went up into the attic of the building. Since Venice was full of ship builders, They used them to build the palace during the winter. The palace had the largest free standing room in europe for many many years. The ceiling is suspended from the roof structure. So It is completely free standing. They used the same boat building technology. This was the reason for touring the attic. Now the really cool part is the attic is entirely filled with Armour and weapons from the middle ages. There were swords, halbreds, crossbows and a ton of wheel lock rifles and pistols. I did not know very much about the wheel locks or even flintlocks at the time, But the art work on the wheel locks was truely amazing. I did not notice many flintlocks. I think the height of venice was earlier in the wheel lock period. If I even make it back, it is on my must see list again. I need to look at my pictures to see if I took any pictures. I think I was not allowed to photograph anything in the main museum, but in the attic they did not care. It was like they had everything hidden away.
I have never been to France, but I have a client that is over there right now. He was telling me that there is a huge flea market over there. You can buy anything from junk t-shirts and cd's to 15th century and on antiques. I know guys that buy a lot of architectural antiques and furniture and bring them over here to decorate with. It might be a good place to look around. My client is into old books and I guess they have a huge amount for sale. I would be cool to find some of those french books with all the old flintlock artwork and designs. 
If I every make it to Paris, I will try to make it to this flea market.

Sounds like a fun trip where ever you end up.
Marc

[eastwind]

Absolutely must see in Paris; the already mentioned Musee de invalides and the National Military Museum--no other place on earth has so many early firearms...and be sure to see Naplolean's room in the musuem---his horse (on display stuffed) was slightly larger than of my Labrador retriever.
Then take the Metro North of Paris to Clingencourt (spl)...where an enormous amount of antiques are sold, including early firerarms. Bring a pistol back in 3 pieces (stock-lock and barrel) - bring 1 and ship two pieces home and life is easier at the borders/customs.
Wish I was going.

[Feltwad]

If you are in the UK  the Royal Armoury in Leeds Yorkshire is worth a visit.Weapons on display from medieval to the present day including the commonwealth.
Feltwad

[Acer Saccharum]

This is from my personal list:
Albrecht Durer House in Nurnberg
Musee de la Chasse in Paris
Cluny Musee, Paris, medieval museum
Rijksmuseum Amsterdam

[Mike New]

The Swiss National Museum in Zurich has a large display of military firearms. I was there in 1996 when I worked for Siemens but was only able to go to the museum once. I wasn't the "student" of flintlocks then like I am now. I wish I had paid more attention. The museum is easy to find. It is across the street from the main railway station. I would love to go back. Have a good trip. M. New

[PGosnell]

Schloss Braunsfels , Braunfels, Hesse, Germany.  A beautiful collection of Jaeger rifles.

[Tony Clark]

Wow, thanks for all of the suggestions they have all been carefully noted. Wish I wasn't on such a shoestring budget, the way it is and about the only reason I can go is that I can stay with a friend in Paris, and airfare is fairly affordable at the moment.
M. tornichio, you post caught my attention. The place you spoke abut in Venice sounds like something I would love to see. If I can find a cheap train fair I might head over that way. I had wanted to get to Milan to see the last supper anyway. Hey, would it be possible for you to find out where that flea market is you spoke of? I am really into old books myself and am eager to see what I can find in that regard.
Acer I am a big fan of Durer myself, and some of his contemporaries. In fact the first thing I am heading for when I get to Paris is the painting of that lady by that Da Vinci guy. I figure if I get there really early in the a.m. I might even have some time by myself with it, well me and the guards. Then if I can find my way to St. Peters to see that Buonarroti fellows Pieta I would be one happy boy.
Eastwind, you have a stuffed labrador retriever? Cool. The metro does look the cheap easy way to get around thats for sure. Where in Clingencourt  are the huge amount of anitques and guns for sale? The shops or are there flea markets there also?
Hey thanks a bunch, regards, TC

[famouseagle]

If  you had one place to go in Italy it would be Florence, in my opinion.  The architecture is incredible.  There's a lot to see from Michaelangelo's David to the Ponte Veccio bridge.  I don't remember any gun-related stuff but there's a lot of art and history.  It's also an easy train trip to Pisa.

[jwh1947]

Don't miss Warwick Castle when in England.  Often thrown in as a side trip to Stratford-upon Avon.  Arms galore.  For WWII enthusiasts, check out the War Rooms at Whitehall (London) .  Left just the way they were at WWII's end.  Also. don't miss the Tower.

[altankhan]

Here's a link to the armory museum in Copenhagen -- yes, an awesome collection of early firearms -- including racks of fowlers with incredibly long barrels:http://www.thm.dk/info/eng.htm

[Jim Filipski]

Here's a link to the armory museum in Copenhagen -- yes, an awesome collection of early firearms -- including racks of fowlers with incredibly long barrels:http://www.thm.dk/info/eng.htm

altankhan Do they have any images of these guns online? I followed all their links ( I think) not very good with translating the language.
Jim

[Stophel]

I can't imagine ever going to Europe, or much anywhere more than a few hundred miles from home, but there are any number of places I'd like to go in Germany...would probably spend more time studying architecture and furniture than guns. 

There is, or at least used to be, the Deutsches Jagdmuseum in Muenchen.  I have a book they printed.

More French jokes:

 I believe it was Mark Twain who said "France is miserable because it's full of Frenchmen.  Frenchmen are miserable because they are in France."

[famouseagle]

In Paris they just simply opened their eyes and stared when we spoke to them in French! We never did succeed in making those idiots understand their own language.
- The Innocents Abroad

[jwh1947]

Suggestions...if in France hunting for guns, other than the big museums in Paris, you want to spend your time near the Rhine River.  Germany, Denmark and Netherlands are much better for firearms sites.  Belgium is the Mecca for all of the arms industry in Europe; don't overlook the historic center of the arms trade. 

Then face east, my friend.  Prague, Vienna and Budapest are rich areas for gun enthusiasts.  For the more adventurous, Zagreb, Beograd, Kragujevac, and Sarajevo are gun friendly.

Then there's gun valley...Val Trompia...in Italy.  More high-grade gun shops per square mile in the valley outside of Brescia, than likely anywhere else in the world.  Lots of hand made guns.  World's best in fine engraving.  Incidentally, one of my favorite engravers is a young French girl.  She is exquisite.  I can't even tell you what shop she works in, because the owners hide her very existence in the valley.  She'll do a full coverage on a small Siler for about $1000.

Then for raw firepower and destructive devices it's off to Albania.  Note, all towns except Tirana and a few coastal towns are off the tourist list and you do not want to venture here unless you've done your homework first.  By American standards, it is dangerous, no ruthless.  In many parts of town you will stand out and you will be accosted.  Not a place for mom and the family.  But the dealers travel up the Dalmatian coast where it is safer and lots of the Croatian seaside resorts have active "back-room" gun trading sessions.  Antique business brisk here.  Remember, you are a ferry ride away from Bari, Italy, and a 1/2 day car ride to Trieste through a lax border crossing.  Nobody asks anybody what they are carrying on the ferry.  Incidentally, the Dalmatian coast is beautiful, economical, safe, and the way old Europe really was.  They like us, and our $$$ makes us even more attractive.

Incidentally, anybody who tells you that they can pinpoint the place in Europe where rifling, or the rifle originated, like it popped out as woman from Adam's rib, is full of baloney.  It was a process of evolution in the area that is now Germany, Czech Republic, Switzerland, Slovakia, southern Poland, Austria, northern Italy and western France, at least.  Go study the guns in the museums and private collections there.  And, there is no doubt, rifling is a European development.  JWHeckert

[altankhan]

In response to Jim's request:
I believe this is an image from the Armory in Copenhagen -- I found it on a sight that seems to cater to sword people -- there are show cases of flintlock muskets in the background (and some cannons in other shots)-- doesn't show the incredibly long fowlers, but gives some idea of what part of the museum looks like --  I was there over ten years ago ... several guns from the museum were featured in articles by George Shumway some years back in Muzzleblasts.  As I recall many of the exhibits are walk around so you can see both sides.

Here is the link: http://www-users.cs.umn.edu/~whalen/personal/pictures/2002/Europe2002/Copenhagen/Armory/CeremonialSword.htm

[cal.43]

There is, or at least used to be, the Deutsches Jagdmuseum in Muenchen. 

and there might be the chance to see a Wolpertinger

in the Pfalz might be Elwetritsche

[Dphariss]

I will have to admit these things beat out the "Jackalope" of Wyoming.
But then the "old world" has a lot of strange stuff, more experience perhaps
 
Dan