Full Stock Hawken Build

[Dan'l 1946]

  Is it me, or does the lock work seem a bit crude? It all seems a bit rough....
                                      Dan

[greybeard]

To my eye it looks lihe the the sear nose is too narrow to engage the fly. Tumbler also looks to not being set deep enough against the plate. Check to make sure the lock plate is not bent.
Thats all I got,.
   Bob

[d-a]

I agree it looks as if the timber is not seated into the lock plate fully.

d-a

[sean30ber]

Another thing I just realized, this is a replacement plate. I didnt realy check it before hand. The bridle screws are not seating all the way, like the holes are not taped all the way through. This is allowing the tumbler to cam over just a touch in its hole. I put the parts back in the old plate and it sits tight. The gap between the tumbler and the plate is it camming over under spring preasure as its not being pressed flat by the bridle. Im going to get a 6-40 tap and reem the holes all the way through, see if it helps.

[greybeard]

Could be the threads on the bridle screws are a bit short and is preventing you from anchoring
 the tumbler???
     Bob

[sean30ber]

I sent an e-mail to Tim at L&R with the pics and he told me to send it back and they would fix her up. Went out in the mail today. Now I get to set and twiddle my thumbs.

[Clark Badgett]

I sent an e-mail to Tim at L&R with the pics and he told me to send it back and they would fix her up. Went out in the mail today. Now I get to set and twiddle my thumbs.

Make a horn, or a bag.

[galamb]

Sean, had forgot you replaced the plate on this - so is it possible you didn't get all the holes threaded all the way through with the replacement plate? (was it "as cast"? which would have required some work)

That could cause all sorts of bad things to happen...

[Bob Roller]

The whole thing need to be remade.

Bob Roller

[willyr]

Ain't it the truth, Bob. Pretty typical of the last two L & R locks I purchased.

[JTR]

Ain't it the truth, Bob. Pretty typical of the last two L & R locks I purchased.

So it sounds like the guy replaced the lock plate,,, neglected to screw the lock screws all the way down,,,, and that somehow makes the problem L&R's fault??

Now that's some screwy thinking!  

John

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

What I saw in the photographs, is the outside face of the sear had been ground away - not filed - but ground away, and on an angle.  That removed the metal that would have contacted the fly, and kicked it down to protect the half cock notch.  That in my experience is not how L & R sends out their locks.
If L & R does 'fix' the lock, I'd be pretty impressed with their service department, as I don't see it as their fault at all.  I hope we hear how it all ends up.

[sean30ber]

Other than the plate being replaced with one of their replacement plated. All the parts are factory. I just swapped them to the new plate. No filling, no grinding, No nothing. Well see. Ill let you know when I hear from them. Ive never built or really delved into the lock portion of building yet, so I dont know much about them. I suppose I should try to build one sometime to educate myself on the fittings.

[Jim Kibler]

Based on the photos, the lock looks to me not to be very well put together.  The tumbler appears to be on an angle and there seems to be lots of slop between it and the bridle.  This doesn't help your issue.  Also the front of the sear is angled downward a bit as Taylor pointed out.  In fact, almost everything shown looks crooked!  Not what I would consider to be decent quality work, even for an off-the-shelf lock at the price point they are being sold at.

[Dave B]

I zoomed in on the sear and it was bent in the wax phase of its fabrication. You can clearly see that the width the sear is exactly the width of the tumbler but it is cocked off due to a couple degrees of bend. I you were to tighten down the sear screw the nose and the rear of the sear bar would lock it down to the plate  so it couldne move at all.  Nothing but replacing the sear with a new one that is not bent and your in business.

[sean30ber]

Ain't it the truth, Bob. Pretty typical of the last two L & R locks I purchased.

So it sounds like the guy replaced the lock plate,,, neglected to screw the lock screws all the way down,,,, and that somehow makes the problem L&R's fault??

Now that's some screwy thinking!  

John

JTR. I dont think anyone said it was L&Rs fault. I emailed Tim with some photos and he said he could fix it for me. If it cost a few bucks thats fine. I did replace the plate. But the other parts are as came from the factory. Tim was nice enough to fix it for me even though I swapped plates. Im waiting to hear from him as to what all needs to be done. He was very helpful with our brief exchange. I have never had an issue with L&R and dont want anyone thinking im dogging on them. Ill use thier locks anytime. Hope this whole thing didnt make me sound like I was dogging them. I dont know the first thing about locks. Thats why I posted, to see what others thought.

[JTR]

Sean, I never had the impression that you were 'dogging' L&R in any way. Nor was my comment directed toward you. It's great that the company is going to fix it, and I'm sure that in the end you'll have an excellent lock!
John

[sean30ber]

Read it at 230 in the AM. I see.

[sean30ber]

Just some pics of the progress. Waiting for the lock to come back so I have been shaping and thinning. Don't mind the lock plate in the pics, its just there for visual.  Wish the lock panels weren't so curved in the pre-carving but she'll look nice when done.

THINNING FOREARM


SHAPING


THINNING


SHAPING




LOCK PANEL TEMPLATE

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I would like to make a constructive criticism of your lock panel layout.  First, reduce the wood and metal along the centre line of the barrel right back to and include the lock plate to the drum.  The rest is self explained in the image I have presented.  It is only a suggestion, but it's based upon study of original rifles, and is only my interpretation.

Here's what you have now...




...and here is my suggestion.



My lines are drawn inside the parameters of the existing panel.  They got a little fat along the bottom edge of the front of the plate, but you should get the idea.

[razor62]

Much better. I'd heed this advice if I were building this rifle.

[sean30ber]

Thanks Taylor. I hadn't leveled the top yet as Im waiting for the lock to get back and want to sand it all down together. I was thinking the front of the panel looked a bit thick. Im going through pics now that I have and can find.

[sean30ber]

Had to take a brake and frame in the new shop on Sunday. Going to have another 13 foot bench with bench anvil and dual position vise. Over head cabinets and shelving below. Reload station down at the end. Oh, and Air conditioning for the hot Arizona summer. The proper man cave.

[sean30ber]

Little better I think. Still need to level the top when the lock gets back. Thank you Mr Sapergia.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

100 % better!!  Once you have the lock in, file the forward part of the plate's bolster so that it lies no more than along the centre line of the bore - a little below is fine too.  Then the wood can be cut down too, to straighten out that line, and to reduce the amount of wood in the forearm which will help to avoid that slab sided effect.  Remember, the forearm is not flat along its vertical plane, but gently rounded or ovoid in section.  T/C missed that little point by a country mile, and a lot of contemporary builders, whose experience with muzzle loaders is limited to that kind of 'replica', recreate the mistake on their builds.
Your rifle is coming along famously.