Author Topic: 18th century barrel stamps (Read 25044 times)

Darrin McDonal · « **on:** March 07, 2014, 10:16:54 PM »

Does anyone here know where to get or who makes truly correct mid 18th century British bbl stamps? Like Richard Wilsons *RW , views mark & the proof mark? I have one from TOW and its nice but it is not correct. I talked to Mike Brooks last week because his are spot on, but he said he had them so long, he forgot who made the. Possibly from England though.
I have tried to make them and I havent been able to get it "just right" not to mention some are in relief and some are stamped in. Kind of like positive & negative image if that makes sense.
Thanks guys for the input.
Darrin

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #1 on:** March 07, 2014, 10:18:59 PM »

Try Chris Altland. Makes the pistol kits and supplies barrel stamps.

Darrin McDonal · « **Reply #2 on:** March 07, 2014, 10:49:39 PM »

Thanks Tom,
I didnt know Chris had stamps. I will contact him.

C Wallingford · « **Reply #3 on:** March 07, 2014, 11:47:30 PM »

Darrin--
You might try the following:
Davidson & Co LTD
92 Harwood Street
Sheffield S2 4SE
011-44-114-272-4584
They may be able to help

James Rogers · « **Reply #4 on:** March 08, 2014, 03:48:02 AM »

Darrin,
As said Chris has the correct London proofs. If you are looking for a maker mark, contact Buckeye engraving. They made mine like my avatar which has characteristics of an early 18th century English maker's mark. I sent them a computer made design and they adjusted and sent me the final draft in reverse for approval.
I tried my hand at my own maker stamp but did not satisfy myself with the engraving. Made some English private proofs that were fair though.

Darrin McDonal · « **Reply #5 on:** March 08, 2014, 08:07:17 AM »

Excellent, now I have some options. I checked out Chris Altlands and they look very nice. I would still need a few others like, what you mentioned James my own stamp and the RW*.
Darrin

Gaeckle · « **Reply #6 on:** March 08, 2014, 05:03:58 PM »

What is Chris Atlands contact info?

James Rogers · « **Reply #7 on:** March 08, 2014, 05:25:07 PM »

http://www.firelockpistols.com/
Altland

mattdog · « **Reply #8 on:** March 08, 2014, 06:23:01 PM »

I don't think you are going to find anyone who has those stamps ready-made on a shelf. You'll end up doing what I have had to do for correct stamps: design them myself and submit them to a stamp making outfit. Here's what I have done in the past. With a good digital camera with a macro lens setting I can photograph an original proof mark or ?? mark, load into the computer, print it, then trace or offhand correct flaws and come up with a black & white line drawing, enlarge or shrink it on the copy machine. Then send it to the stampmaker as camera ready art. I use Steel Stamps, LLC in Boise, ID. Ask for Todd.

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #9 on:** March 10, 2014, 01:03:45 AM »

Told you these guys would know!

Does anybody remember the wild englishman named Morris? That,s who I got my stamps from many years aog. clouldn't understand a word the man said. I was told by his countrymen they couldn't understand him either.

James Rogers · « **Reply #10 on:** March 10, 2014, 02:37:07 AM »

Maurice Taylor IIRC.
I have him on video talking about something. A riot. I tried to locate him some gears ago for stampsb but nobody knew his location.

greybeard · « **Reply #11 on:** March 10, 2014, 04:45:10 AM »

Is it legal to copy proof marks??
Bob

Dphariss · « **Reply #12 on:** March 10, 2014, 05:36:00 AM »

Quote from: greybeard on March 10, 2014, 04:45:10 AM

Is it legal to copy proof marks??
Bob

Making fake stamps is, well, fakery.

Dan

FlintFan · « **Reply #13 on:** March 10, 2014, 02:40:25 PM »

Quote from: greybeard on March 10, 2014, 04:45:10 AM

Is it legal to copy proof marks??
Bob

Yes. In the US we have no laws regarding such things.

In the UK it "might" be illegal, but an 18th century proof mark has no value as to the current the safety of a barrel, and would have to be re-proofed with modern stamps added regardless.

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #14 on:** March 10, 2014, 03:08:06 PM »

Quote from: Dphariss on March 10, 2014, 05:36:00 AM

Quote from: greybeard on March 10, 2014, 04:45:10 AM
Is it legal to copy proof marks??
Bob

Making fake stamps is, well, fakery.

Dan

tallbear · « **Reply #15 on:** March 10, 2014, 03:22:10 PM »

Quote

Huh Is it legal to copy proof marks??

Since we haven't been British subjects for over 200 years their rules don't apply

JTR · « **Reply #16 on:** March 10, 2014, 07:05:51 PM »

And ethically doing that would be considered,,, ah,,, just what,,,,,
John

tallbear · « **Reply #17 on:** March 10, 2014, 07:16:01 PM »

Quote

And ethically doing that would be considered,,, ah,,, just what,,,,,

No different than engraving Ketland Bros. on the side of a Chambers lock.

Mitch

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #18 on:** March 10, 2014, 07:35:02 PM »

Then there are the copies of original BP/TG's and copies of Hawken, Beck, Volger, and other rifles

JTR · « **Reply #19 on:** March 10, 2014, 09:09:59 PM »

Quote from: aka tallbear on March 10, 2014, 07:16:01 PM

Quote
And ethically doing that would be considered,,, ah,,, just what,,,,,

No different than engraving Ketland Bros. on the side of a Chambers lock.

Mitch

And no more ethical in my book either. Sorry.
John

JTR · « **Reply #20 on:** March 10, 2014, 09:12:07 PM »

Quote from: Dennis Glazener on March 10, 2014, 07:35:02 PM

Then there are the copies of original BP/TG's and copies of Hawken, Beck, Volger, and other rifles

But most of the rifles made using those parts today bear little resemblance to the originals,,,,

John

tallbear · « **Reply #21 on:** March 10, 2014, 09:43:24 PM »

John
So in my quest to build a believable interpretation of a British Gun I can ;

Pull rubber molds off an original to have correct hardware.

Purchase the proper wood.

Study the architechture, carving and engraving of the original using the same tools and techniques right down to the tool cuts.

Make my own stain and varnish using original recipes

But if I stamp a couple of 200 year old proof marks in my Getz barrel or engrave Ketland on my Chambers lock I have crossed the line and am now unethical?

??

Mitch

JTR · « **Reply #22 on:** March 10, 2014, 10:29:23 PM »

Mitch, I'm not trying to say what you could, or should do. Nor do I have any issue with making a gun as exacting as possible, but to me, and this is only my opinion, that any modern day maker putting the original makers name or mark or stamp on newly made gun, or gun part, crosses the line. Granted, this is only my personal line of ethics vs fakery and obviously others will have their own level of comfort.

I guess a question I would have is what's the difference between putting an original makers name on a newly made gun, versus adding a patchbox to an original rifle that never had one?

John

tallbear · « **Reply #23 on:** March 10, 2014, 10:49:30 PM »

John

No worries your opinion was what I was asking for. I find it interesting and curious where that line is drawn for different folks which is why I asked.I know from Dan Pharris's postings he considers even the ageing of a contemporary gun as fakery so everyone has a different level of comfort as you say.I don't currently have any proof stamps(although I honestly not sure I have a problem with them)but have a project coming up that I was thinking of getting them.I also have recut makers names(Ketland) in locks that the engraving was cast in and never gave it much thought.And truthfully probably would cut it in a lock with no engraving.It's an interesting discussion and I appreciate you position even if mine differs.Certainly is something interesting to think about.

Mitch

JTR · « **Reply #24 on:** March 10, 2014, 11:17:28 PM »

And I'll look forward to seeing your project when it's complete!

John

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Author Topic: 18th century barrel stamps (Read 25044 times)

mattdog

greybeard