Hawken pistol

[Old Ford2]

Did the Hawken boys ever build a pistol to go with their rifles?
Does anybody have any pictures?
I have the makings for a rifle, and a good barrel to make a pistol, both are .69 ca.
Some pictures and information would really help in my quest to make such a pair.
BEST REGARDS
Fred

[Bob Roller]

In John Baird's book Hawken Rifles,Mountain Mans Choice there is a picture of a pair of J&S Hawken pistols.
Good looking pair.I made some of these locks but that was years ago.

Bob Roller

[Mtn Meek]

Here are some photos of the two Hawken pistols Bob mentioned.







There are other Hawken marked pistols shown in Baird's book as well as other publications.  Some may not have been built by the Hawken shop as a few are stamped "Hawkens".

[Bob Roller]

Mighty fine looking pair.I think Tom Dawson may have made up one of these pistols
and I have a vague memory of putting a mechanism in a lock plate he made
for the job.
I still have the profile made out of steel for this lock.
Bob Roller

[borderdogs]

I really like the look of these pistols they have a military way about them. This is going to sound like a beginners questions (which of course it is!) but is a pistol easier to build than a rifle?
Thanks,
Rob

[smallpatch]

Border,
This is not a beginners project.
The breech, the lock, the under rib make it quite an advanced project in fact.
As far as a pistol vs. rifle?  Not in my opinion. Same amount of work on a smaller, hard to hold piece makes pistols somewhat a hassle.
Wow, what a party pooper, huh?

[rich pierce]

And a Hawken pistol would be more challenging than a "Kentucky" pistol would typically be.

[Old Ford2]

Border,
This is not a beginners project.
The breech, the lock, the under rib make it quite an advanced project in fact.
As far as a pistol vs. rifle?  Not in my opinion. Same amount of work on a smaller, hard to hold piece makes pistols somewhat a hassle.
Wow, what a party pooper, huh?

I actually find a pistol somewhat easier to build.
Turning it from end to end, does not wipe out the lights on the ceiling ( ask me how I know this  )
It is easier to hold the forestock, and then shape/scrape/sand the grip area.
It is a bit more difficult to blend lines as everything is compressed into a smaller area.
Have a great day!
Fred

[Bob Roller]

Helmut Mohr in Mayen/Hausen Germany is a maker of muzzle loading target pistols of very nice quality and a price to match.He will tell you these highly detailed pistols are much harder to make that  rifle because during the building process great care must be taken in handling them. The American Hawken pistol would be as hard as a rifle,maybe harder.I built a saw handle flint lock pistol about 30 years ago for a friend in Louisiana and I said,"Never again".

Bob Roller

[JTR]

Some company, I forget which, made a close copy of these pistols as a kit back in the 70's/80's.
Mine is pretty much identical looking to these, other than having a belt hook. It was a well done kit for the 80's, although not very accurate.
John

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Using the photo from Baird's first Hawken book, I built this pistol about 1980.  It has a 15/16' .60 CAL barrel by R. Hoch with a 1:34 twist and is as accurate as a pistol can be.  The original was .64 cal, IIRC.



The swivel ramrod has a brass knob on the muzzle end that doubles as a jag for cleaning...very handy.  I shoot 25 grains 3Fg GOEX, a .015" cotton patch, and a .595" ball @ 310 grains.

[bob in the woods]

Taylor, that pistol is a beauty !   I find that building a pistol that fits the hand well, and points naturally is a real challenge, equal to or even more difficult than building a rifle.  It took me a week of trying, carving, filing, scraping etc etc to get just the right feel in my hand.   The funny thing is, everyone who has ever picked up the thing has commented on how good it feels      I thought my hand was " special" 

[eddillon]

I find pistols easier.  Shorter barrel inletting job.  Easier to move it around in my stockmaker's vise.  Not hitting lights and equipment when I revers sides.

[Bob Roller]

Most antique pistols are more comfortable to my hand if held by the barrel and that
includes the Colt SAA. The 1911 and the S&W Model 3 single actions feel good to me.

Bob Roller

[Mtn Meek]

The is another pistol pictured on page 53 of R. L. Wilson's The Peacekeepers (bottom pistol above the knife) that is similar to these J&S Hawken pistols but it is marked S Hawken St. Louis. 



A set of plans for it can be purchased from Dixie Gun Works.

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=11242

Has anyone built one of these?  The bolster and lock are different than on the pair of J&S Hawken pistols and it has a simple wooden ramrod.

[Bob Roller]

That Dimick reeks of Old England and and I wonder if he actually made it.
It is an elegant piece no matter who made it.

Bob Roller

[Old Ford2]

Next question, has anyone ever seen a Hawken flint pistol???
Does it exist??
Fred

[Bob Roller]

I would say a verifiable Hawken flintlock pistol would be as rare as a football bat.

Bob Roller

[Mark Horvat]

Bondini from Italy made the Hawken pistol reproductions.  I purchased a used one about 13 years ago.  Mine is a shooter.  My opinion and that of others that have used it at rendezvouses.  You have to make any parts yourself if anything goes south, though.  ArmiSports bought Bondini and they cannot provide replacement parts.  At least when I talked with them.

Mark

[borderdogs]

I wonder where the design for the Hawken pistol comes from. I use to collect antique pistols, mostly military and all US. I had a North's 1819 .54 flint that had the retained ramrod system like on the Hawken. It was very similar to it with the exception that it had a round barrel rather than an octagonal. I wonder if the Hawken's just used a design that followed a conventional military design of the time. Or did it follow a general design of pistols at the time.

I had a pistol years ago that is some ways looked a lot like a Hawken It was an unmarked civilian pistol that was half stock octagon, .50 (or there abouts) that had a rough wooden ramrod. It was originally a flint that was converted to a percussion. I got it at a gun show in NY in the early 80's and it was in rough shape but it was originally well made.  It's size I'd say was like something you'd put under an overcoat & it didn't have a belt hook. My point is I wonder what drove the Hawken design for their pistols?

Rob

[JTR]

Here's the one I did.
Seems to me it was being sold as some type of Naval pistol, with a belt hook. But maybe not.... But like I said, it was sold as a kit with all the parts. All I did was upgrade the wood.

Taylor, Where did you buy the parts for yours?





John

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

John:  When I built mine, I was working for Robinson Firearms Mfg here in Prince George.  At the time, there was a Hawken 'craze' and we were producing half stock percussions, full stocked flint rifles, a smaller 'hunter's rifle, and a ladies'/kits rifle, as well as the percussion Hawken pistol.  If I recall, I believe the pistol components came from Pete Allen...perhaps he'll see this, and comment.  Later, TOW marketed these parts sets, but Don Robinson's didn't deal with TOW.  the company bought directly from the manufacturer - Green Mt., GRRW, Douglas, L & R, Allen.  The stock for our pistol was duplicated from a prototype that I created myself, again, with only that one photo from John's book.  We made all of our muzzle loading guns with Claro or Bastone walnut from suppliers in California and Oregon.  It was always an exciting day when a create of stock blanks arrived.
The set trigger on my pistol is of my own manufacture.  It has no backlash, which is a problem with the commercial offering.  And it can be set so light that it will fire by it's own weight, if the muzzle is raised to vertical.  That feature cost me a loss in a duelling match once.  Since then, I stiffened it up to prevent that from recurring.

[JTR]

Thanks Taylor!
I might still have the sales receipt for the gun someplace, but it might have been TOW,,, if they were around in the early 80's.

The lack of accuracy with mine is mostly due to the 1/4" of trigger backlash!
John

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I got 'cha John.  If the trigger disappears when it breaks, the muzzle drops uncontrollably...not good for consistent shooting.  I suspect that that is why the spur was added to the guard...helps to steady the pistol.  I shoot mine two handed just like I was taught to do by the Force, so my second hand going over my first grips the spur, and it really steadies the pistol.

[David Rase]

Here is a picture of one I am working on.  I ordered all the hardware from TOTW a couple of years ago except for the stock, which was a blank I had on the shelf.  Even though they do not advertise their Hawken pistol kit any longer, they do have all the parts to build a Hawken pistol.  I did perform quite a bit of welding.  I built up the tang on one side to make it centered to the barrel and breech and I also cut and welded the hammer to better align it with the nipple.