Frizzen too soft?

[obsidian]

Having trouble after filing, polishing and assembling a lock on a new build.  Can't get a good spark and the flint is digging into the frizzen.  About half the time the frizzen won't open.  Have tried lot of flint sizes and positions.  Am looking into the frizzen spring timing but don't think that's the problem.  After research in the archives here I think the frizzen needs to be harder.  I'd rather not say who's lock it is and get into that discussion-sorry, I know that might help but if I can't fix it I will take it up with him before going into that here.  Suffice to say that it is from a fairly common builder.  Just wondering on those buying locks how often you need to harden and temper a new lock before it's ready to go?  It appears to me it is a fairly common practice?  I have access to acetylene torch every day and would be comfortable trying to improve it. 
Thanks,  Rich

[bob in the woods]

You indicated that you filed, polished and assemble the lock...did it come as a kit ie not assembled ?    You may need to harden the frizzen. The flint shouldn't " dig in " or at least mine don't. After a couple thousand shots there is a slight groove on one where the flint first strikes, but it will be a long long time before I need to grind the surface smooth. A file skates off the striking surface.

[Acer Saccharum]

My experience with a soft frizzen is that the flint will bite into the friz, and stop dead in its tracks. Experience may vary, depending on sharpness of flint, and power of spring.

You can harden it by packing in charcoal in a tightly covered steel can (beans, tuna, beets). See recent post: http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=30187.msg289138;boardseen#new

[obsidian]

Yes, the lock was assembled when I got it.  However the plate, cock, frizzen and frizzen spring were cast and not filed yet.  I can make file marks in the frizzen face with a file so hardening it seems to be the thing to do.  I have a forge and will use it.  Acer, saw you using a forge-are you using hardwood to fuel the fire-would you discourage some coal mixed in?  Also, is there a way to compensate for not having Kasenite on hand since I see discussion about needing carbon on the face?  Thanks for your help-I get a big kick out of this process......but the learning curve is a big one!!   Rich

[LRB]

  How you harden it depends on what steel the frizzen is made from. Who made the lock? Many commercial locks use 1095 steel for frizzens, and they need no Kasenit, or extra carbon, just a simple hardening. 

[Nordnecker]

I filed my new lock yesterday. Everything went well until I got to the frizzen. The area around the axle was as soft as the rest of the lock, but the contact area and the back of the frizzen was HARD. A file wouldn't touch it. I'm gonna leave it alone for now.

[Bob Roller]

Speaking from long experience,I have no confidence in an untreated frizzen.I add a bit of carbon
to EVERY one I've used. The L&R frizzens are already installed when I get them and so far,no problems
and Bill Cox told me he's been using 52-100 for some time. It is ball bearing material.
  A friend has an odd Ketland flintlock.It has no pan bridle and no bridle for the tumbler either.
It is marked "Ketland" and in good condition.He also has the remants of a long fowler.Long barrel,
good trigger guard and but plate. Stock is shot.
If anyone is needing something like this,call Larry Vaden at 1-304-523-6990. It's AAA antiques,a business/hobby of his.

Bob Roller

[LRB]

  Kasenit only goes in a few thousandths. If a treated lock is still sparking good after a couple hundred snaps, it is not from the Kasenit treatment. However, the kasenit would replace any lost carbon in the surface, but a quick grinding would get rid of the surface decarb layer as well, and easier.

[J.D.]

To reiterate Wick's question, who made the lock kit?

The maker of the lock kit should have provided instructions for hardening the various parts.

If that was not the case, American made locks usually have frizzens made of 1095, or some similar alloy. Frizzens on European made locks are usually case hardened mild steel.

Even if the frizzen is made of a high carbon alloy, additional surface carbon can make 'em spark like hot lightning.

Heating the face of a frizzen, in a smoky, reducing flame of an oxyacetylene torch, will add a bit of surface carbon. I believe Jim Chambers gives this treatment to the frizzens on his wonderful locks.

[obsidian]

Thanks to all for the help.  Today I did the acetylene torch with reduced flame and adjusted rich.  Heated to orange color and stuffed it in motor oil.  Throws a ton of sparks now so I'm back in business.  Now I can inlet the lock with confidence.  I did call the builder and he was great like I expected.  It's Larry Zornes from the Mold and Gun Shop in Jackson, Ohio.  He encouraged me to send it back and he would quickly get me dealt with.  He also stated that they try to test them all but every now and again one slips past them that isn't hard enough.  That in mind, I wanted to learn myself how to resurrect this one if possible with hopes I had not already cooked out too much of the carbon in my attempts with my forge.  He was extremely helpful in coaching me , just as those of you that have responded.  And he assured me the frizzen is made from 1095.  Still scratching my head on why the forge to orange/plunge into oil still left me soft?  Guessing the carbon rich torch setting fixed a little more carbon back into the surface?
Thanks again guys,
Rich

[Acer Saccharum]

I found that welding with an acetylene rich flame makes it impossible to file the part after welding. 

The carbon-rich flame really does add carbon to the steel!


an oxygen-rich coal fire could deplete the carbon in the surface of a frizzen.