GRRW Jim Bridger Hawken

[iloco]

A couple people asked me to add a picture of the GRRW Jim Bridger Hawken I bought in the WTB section of the forum.
 It is Serial Number 10 and unfired with Wooden Box and Red Gun Sleeve.  It will be passed on to my grandson when he is 21.
I have a pdf file it is in that shows lots of close ups.  If anyone wants the file pm me your email address and I will be glad to send it to you.

[redwood]

  Great looking Hawken.  Thanks for the photos.

[sloe bear]

Thats my idea of a great rifle, I have a early Sharon rifle that could be this ones brother, how ever my has had a lot of action, built in 1976 and been used ever since, and like you it goes to my grandson who is also 21 and loves the BP sport.

[cahil_2]

Nice looking rifle.  Had a chance to buy one in the box at a gun show several years ago for $500 and didn't.  Wish I had now.

[Gunnermike]

Here's an auction from August 2012 that shows 30+ photos of the GRRW Bridger Hawken serial no.9.  These are really great photos, but what the rifle sold for was very surprising!
http://www.gunauction.com/buy/11301731/guns-for-sale-curios-relics/curios-relics-rifles/green-river-rifle-works-grrw-jim-bridger-ltd-ed-.58-cal-hawken.sn-num-9.no-ffl

Mike

[Old Ford2]

To GunnerMike
Thank you for the pictures!
Fred

[Herb]

Gunnermike, thanks for posting those photos of the GRRW Bridger Hawkens.  No. 10 was built by Gardell Powell and No. 9 by Carl Walker.  Back in those days they used acid stains and they faded out.  I talked with Carl about No.9.  He said the builders did not do the stock finishing (it was done by skilled women in the finishing room, including the browning).  He said it was likely finished with potassium permanganate.  I was asked by the owner to refinish a fullstock flint .54 Hawken built by one of their builders years after the business closed, who had finished it with "some kind of acid".  After 9 years this rifle had turned as white as No. 9, though never fired and kept indoors out of the sunlight.  While experimenting with how to refinish it I discovered I could apply Fiebings dark brown oil leather dye and it went right through the linseed oil finish.  That was maybe 6 or 8 years ago and the rifle looks as dark today.  The owner of No. 9 will leave it as is, I know him.

[Bob Roller]

The April Muzzle Blasts has an ad for the Robidoux prints of a Hawken rifle.
A friend of mine made a fine Hawken representation using the first set offered
years ago.His father shot it and said the crescent butt plate was an abomination
and had the son make up one with a shotgun style butt stock and it looked good
and was easier to shoot. I like both styles but have a preference for the shotgun
style.
   Yesterday,I was playing with some Cherry Red hardening powder and got some
colors with it using my heavily nitrated water solution.They aren't as vivid as I'd
like but it hardened a profile gauge plate and wasn't long about doing it.I get good
colors with Kasenit but my supply is very limited and I will ration it to special jobs.

Bob Roller

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

It is very interesting to see these 70's era replicas.  And IMO, they appear to be very well made.  There are some small details that reflect the parts that were then available more than anything.  But overall, a credible rifle for certain.

[cahil_2]

You going to shoot it?

[iloco]

You going to shoot it?

Proably not.   I have a full stock Hawken in same caliber that I shoot.  I am also looking at a 50 caliber that I like a lot which is a shooter

 Having a piece of GRRW History is kind of unique.  I wonder how many of the 77 Rifles are still unfired. 

[JTR]

That's a nice looking gun!
But not going to shoot it?

A friend once told me that not driving an expensive old car I owned, was like not having sex with my Girl Friend, so she'd be more desirable to her next Boy Friend.
I drove the car!

John  

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Exactly!!

[PPatch]

I agree that a gun is made to shoot and if I owned a GRRW I would put some powder and ball through it. I wonder however - is there more value to a never shot gun? Why, and why do collectors feel this way? Sounds odd to me.

dp

[Kynoch]

These guns really don't belong to us... we are just taking care of them for the next owner.

[JoeG]

A gun you don't shoot , doesn't get cleaned and oiled on a regular basis.

As one that worked at GRRW , the guns were built to be used.

I don't know one gun maker that wants his work to be put on a wall and never used  intended. A guns character and personality is developed through its use.

[iloco]

I can see a lot of you have never traded many modern guns and I would think black powder ones are the same.
 A mint unfired collector item will always bring a premium over a used fired gun.

Had I wanted a shooter I would have bought one of the GRRW rifles that sell for many dollars less than what the price of this rifle and the one that was acuctioned on gunauction a couple years ago.

  I think of guns like people who collect coins.  The better the condition of the coin the better the price.

 It all boils down to who owns the gun.  If they want to shoot it then go far it.  If they don't then don't tell them what to do with it. 

  I have a few modern guns that are mint in the box and are 40-50 years old.  They will bring double the price of what a good used shooter will sell for.
 

[cahil_2]

I was just curious when I asked the question about shooting it.  I have a cousin who has a bunch of commemorative winchesters that he bought over 30 years ago that are still in the box.  He says they are his wife's life insurance for when he passes.  Hope you enjoy the rifle.

[oldarcher]

Rifles are made to be properly used, they develop personalities and character with use and if you are lucky you will learn the idiosyncrasies of the rifle and what load it likes to shoot. Until you shoot the rifle you just have a thing with some value. Your GRRW is valuable and as an unfired example of the Commemorative it has greater value than one that has been shot??? Unfortunately GRRW's have not appreciated in value as much as they should have. The rifle that you have is the best of the GRRW rifles made, however the collector market is so small and shrinking that the potential future increase in value is questionable. Few people shooting today were shooting when these were made and fewer still will shell out the kind of $ that these demand. I passed on a nice unfired example a year or so ago when the bid reached my max of $2500. As an investment you may be better off with stocks or some other more recognizable products (gold/silver). The fun of investing in firearms is that you get to SHOOT them. Good luck with a great rifle!

[eddillon]

   Yesterday,I was playing with some Cherry Red hardening powder and got some
colors with it using my heavily nitrated water solution.They aren't as vivid as I'd
like but it hardened a profile gauge plate and wasn't long about doing it.I get good
colors with Kasenit but my supply is very limited and I will ration it to special jobs.

Bob Roller

Bob, I don't mean to veer from the subject, but would you mind sharing your color process using Kasenit?  I have about a coffee can left and am close to doing metal finishing on my full stock Hawken build

[Bob Roller]

Ed,
It's a simple process.I have a plastic bucket that some kind of pickles cam in and it holds about 5 gallons of diastilled water and I use 1/2 pound of potassium nitrate in that amount of water.I heat the item to be hardened to about 1400 degrees and add the Kasenit and the hold it until it melts onto/into the surface and then quench it fast.If it "pops"like a small firecracker I can usually expect a decent color.I always wear military style goggles when I do this.I plan to experiment with the Cherry Red by raising the amount of Nitrate in the water.

Bob Roller

[JoeG]

The rifle that you have is the best of the GRRW rifles made, however the collector market is so small and shrinking that the potential future increase in value is questionable. Few people shooting today were shooting when these were made and fewer still will shell out the kind of $ that these demand.

My feelings as well.
I'm amazed at the number of shooters  I talk to that have no recognition of GRRW rifles or barrels. Unless someone writes a book on the history GRRW their value will be just another  gun when us old guys are gone.

[borderdogs]

I wouldn't buy a rifle that was unfired as a collector if I wanted to shoot it. I'd find a shooter quality one and buy it to shoot it. Iloco makes a good point on the price of modern pistols and rifles that are still 99% in the box after 40-50 years vs a shooter quality one.
Rob

[Mtn Meek]

I started collecting GRRW guns about 6 years ago. Over this period, I've seen a modest increase in interest and prices for these old guns.  That said, I tend to agree with Oldarcher and JoeG on the limited potential for significant appreciation in their value.

I'm collecting them for nostalgia reasons and not as an investment.  I'm having as much fun learning about the old guns and the people that made them as I am in the pleasure of owning them. Some I shoot and some I don't.  Some, the bores are so pitted they're not very accurate and are a pain to clean. A couple are in pristine condition, and I'll keep them that way. Most are in shootable condition, but I still haven't got around to shooting all of them.

One last thought on collecting as an investment, I notice the auction houses are doing a booming business as the leading edge of the Baby Boomers are going to the happy hunting grounds and significant collections are going to auctions as part of estate sales. I wonder though, who will be attending those gun auctions when only the tail end of the Baby Boomers are left. I could be wrong, but it is hard to imagine the folks my son's age putting their mobile devices aside and getting interested in any historical guns whether they be muzzleloaders or cartridge guns, original or reproduction.

Phil Meek

[Ray Nelson]

Phil,

I to think the techno future shooters seem to have not much appreciation for sidelock firing muzzleloaders. they also seem to be pretty clue less to the guns produced by makers (both production and custom built) from the 50's thru to the in-line takeover on the shelves in gun stores. I'm now surprised to hear and I guess helps show my age that they've never heard of people like John Bivins, John Baird, Curley Gostomski etc. or manufacturers such GRRW, Sharon, Ozark Mountain etc. Times have NOW CHANGED I figure.

In fact a few years ago while registering a deer I harvested using one of my choice sidelock's with open sights I over heard a younger gentleman stating ML Hunting weapons with scopes with new powder and big bullets were more humane to hunt with especially in order to shoot at long distance. My response was courteous back...I learned how to hunt 60 yards and closer...I didn't need to shoot game at 200 or more yards. I don't feel very sportsmanlike hunting that way.

Hope the new generation proves my perceptions wrong!

Ray