? About A lock From Castings

[James Rogers]

I found this beautiful early English lock that Jack Brooks sells as a castings set.
The castings are supposed to be very clean. I have never atempted a lock from casted parts.
Would one of you members with this type of experience be kind enough to list the process sequence to complete one of these so i can determine if it is above my ability at this time?

Thanks,
James

[billd]

I built one Siler from castings. I had a very good set of instructions and I am a machinist. The build went very well and the lock worked great. I never did any more because when I figured how long it takes me to finish a gun I didn't need to add the time to make a lock to it when I could buy an assembled one from a reputable builder for about $50.00 more. If money is an issue (isn't it always) I would not hesitate to build more again.

How much does the casting set sell for? It's a great looking lock.

Bill

[James Rogers]

How much does the casting set sell for? It's a great looking lock.

Bill

$135.00 for the castings I believe.

I don't know of anyone that has finished locks that are that early.

[northmn]

I have assembled Siler kits and earlier kits from castings.  You can get by with a drill press. Whether it is worth your time is personal.  I would say that skill is about equal to patience in doing these as you have to remove the casting gates.  A good belt sander helps but is not necessary as are a good set of files.  You will also need the correct taps, which include a bottoming tap for the tumbler (I have ground off tips for this) .  With taps go the correct size drills, usually wire gauge. Some kits come with standard threads as 8-32 and some like the small Siler with 6-40. Also you will probably have to turn the tumbler to fit through the lock plate.  You want a tight but movable fit on this.  Fitting the hammer to the tumbler requires patience and is best done by tapered fits. Hopefully the screw points are marked as in the Siler.  Then if you want a lock like the picture you need to polish a great deal.

DP

[billd]

The cost of the taps is a good point. I did mine at work and had everyting I needed.  Personal pride aside, it's not worth my time. In the case of Jack Brooks locks, if he only sells castings and you really want that lock, go for it.

Bill

[Benedict]

Does anyone have experience with the Jack Brooks castings?  I heard from a not very reliable source that they were not that great.  Knowing Jack, I find that hard to believe.  I have not seen the castings myself but was thinking that they might be a good alternative to TRS.  And the locks do look nice.  I have been thinking about get a set for myself.

Bruce

[Bentflint]

Here is a link to Jack's cool stuff page. He shows a picture of the castings there. All are cast from old locks so you get the screw holes, engraving as well as pits. He does not furnish the screws as few as I know. I've been thinking about the Dutch lock and side plate.

http://www.jsbrookslongrifles.com/riflessundriesforsale.htm

Bruce Everhart

[billd]

According to Jack's web site, he will be at Lewisburg next week.  I'm assuming he'll have some castings with him. How far are you from Lewisburg, PA?

Bill

[Benedict]

Lewisburg is a bit out of the question.  It is a long haul from Montana.

Probably better for me to go to Denver and see Jack there.

Bruce

[billd]

I clicked on Capt. Jas. profile and it said he was from Virginia. I didn't realize two different people were asking about the same lock.   Montana would be just a bit too far.  Sorry.

Bill

[Dave B]

I have not yet built one of his locks but I have held one of his sets of castings (The hand forged germanic style)and they were top notch, good as any I have seen from TRS. I have gotten one set of castings from TRS and they have good quality from what I have recived. Just as any manufacturer on occasian will have flaws I imagine it is possible that some thing can slip by. I would not hesitate to buy a set of his castings.

[Acer Saccharum]

No matter how good the castings are, working up a lock from castings is a LOT of work. I think the production guys(ie: Chambers, L&R, etc) have drill fixtures, mill fixtures, special collets to hold tumblers in the lathe, etc. I have some of Jack's castings and like them so far. I have not assembled them yet, but the look entirely workable. One thing I like is that he sprued up the waxes with heavy feeders, to avoid sinks on the castings. These are a pain to clean up, but far better than having to weld a sunken spot up.

If you've never built a lock from castings before, I'd suggest starting with a large Siler kit, as they go together pretty easy compared to a TRS or Brooks.

I would research this site for topics on the subject. It's a huge task to describe step at a time how to do it. Perhaps getting your hands on a Siler instruction sheet would also be helpful.

Acer

[Dale Halterman]

Try www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/mantonlock/mantonlock.html for a detailed description of one way to go about assembling a lock from TRS castings.

Dale H

[Joe S]

I built this Dutch lock from a Rifle Shoppe casting set, with some help from a friend with a lathe who turned the tumbler for me.  I have probably 60+ hours in the lock, counting the time to make the springs and screws.  It is a large, difficult job the first time through, but well worth the time and effort.  The Manton assembly instructions are very helpful, as are the Siler assembly and tempering instructions.  I’d also suggest you look in the archives and read what jwhuddleston and Dphariss have to say about heat treatment.

The Rifle Shoppe catalogue lists several people who will assemble the lock for you, if you wanted to go that route.

[Ron Scott]

I have assembled more locks than I will admit to from TRS and  some of Jacks. The information to assemble and tune one is beyond the scope of a post here. I would highly suggest signing for Jim Chambers Lock Assembly class offered this June at the NMLRA seminars. This would give you a complete background for this type of work. Also exposure to the expertise of the other instructors and students.

[James Rogers]

Thanks for all the information guys. I guess I wasn't asking for a tutorial but curious about  the main processes to get it to completion. The link to the Manton lock was very informative and gave me some of the insight I needed.

It's more than I can devote right now but I do believe the Siler will be the first attempt.

Shame there are no early Englsih locks on the market but we are blessed to have what we have though.

Thanks again,
James

[Curt Larsen]

I've assembled a few locks from castings beginning on my first build (a Dixie lock back in the 60's).  That first one had no instructions and for some strange reason, it came out fine.  I've done a couple since and tried to rehab some Silers I picked up on ebay.  I find that my hardest chore on these is getting a proper fit between the frizzen and the pan.  That also seems to have been the problem with Silers I've picke up on ebay as well.  My sense now is that it is more economical to buy one of Jim Chamber's locks, or one from L&R or Davis.  Those castings look fantastic but unless I find someone to professionally assemble one, I'm sticking to store bought.

Curt

[Jim Filipski]

While this may be better as a new topic I will ask here since this is a good thread:

I have heard that some lock casting made from original locks can actually use modern internals instead of their original internals.
Has anybody out there built a lock from a casting of these older locks fitting modern internals? or head of this?
Thanks
Jim