Author Topic: P Bettis rifle  (Read 5869 times)

Offline Dphariss

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P Bettis rifle
« on: March 28, 2014, 07:04:07 PM »
A lady brought a rifle into the local gunshop and I was called in to give an opinion
Signed in script P Bettis.
1/2 stock percussion, kinda looks southern by the entry pipe. Her info says 1850-70s.
I could see no signs that it had ever been a fullstock and the brass sheet forend cap is neatly done. The inletting is good where there is not damage though the trigger plate is "proud" of the wood, period replacement?. Curly maple with what appears to be blackened brown varnish in the protected areas. Set trigger and lock are functional. Caliber is about 32.




More photos at http://s72.photobucket.com/user/DPhariss/library/P%20Bettis%20rifle?sort=3&sc=1&multi=1&addtype=local&media=image&page=1
Barrel is 36"-38". Did not get the as good a photos as I would have liked or an over all sorry.
Signature is out of focus. Did not take my camera but used phone ::)
Dan
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Offline Dale Campbell

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Re: P Bettis rifle
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2014, 07:52:04 PM »
Dan, There is a Philip Bettis rifle in the Virtual Museum with many similar characteristics, including a similar looking brass fore end piece.

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=25857.0

Best regards,
Dale

Offline WElliott

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Re: P Bettis rifle
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2014, 06:34:26 AM »
It is always nice to see a Georgia rifle turn up. So many were destroyed either in the War or during The Occupation euphemistically referred to as "Reconstruction".
Wayne Elliott

Offline George Sutton

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Re: P Bettis rifle
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2014, 04:26:48 PM »
There is a listing for him in Sellar's book of American Gunsmiths.   P. Bettis, Vickerys Creek, Georgia. 1879d.

Centershot

Offline Dphariss

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Re: P Bettis rifle
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2014, 06:32:32 PM »
OK I have the rifle in my gun safe pending its sale. Its about 38 caliber at the muzzle 40" barrel fairly long breech tang with two screws. Will take some better photos and post them. Rifle appears to have a period replacement set of triggers, they were obviously on another rifle at some time and do not fit the stock well. They work well.  Given the quality of the rest of the stock work I doubt this was done by Bettis. The lock is full cock only as I would expect and is also functional. The nipple is a fairly recent addition while it matches the the drum in color it is modern in form and other than the coloring etc could have come in the mail last week.
The buttstock still has pretty good condition darkened oil varnish in the low wear areas. Under the varnish are a lot of tool marks. Scrapers and maybe some file marks. The scrapers were coarsely sharpened. Toothed almost. I am sure these are from original construction then varnished over with a viscous varnish that would make them less obvious.
Overall this is a nice old rifle with good shaping and nice lines for the most part. The ramrod hole was drilled either with the barrel out of the stock or before it was installed and while it wandered it did not break out until the forearm was struck and a small hole broken into the rod hole a few inches.
Inletting that has not been damaged by  subsequent "work" is very good to excellent. The brass parts still all fit very nice to excellent. Since the rifle was made in Georgia, was last purchased in Oklahoma and is now in Montana it bears witness to the quality and aging of the wood and to the skill of the maker. Wood is curly maple which I assume is sugar maple.
This is a dandy old rifle with very well worn rifling at the muzzle.  It also shows that the ML rifle was alive and well in the 1870s-80s and still saw a lot of use. They were highly effective hunting arms and were much cheaper to use than the common, by the 1870s, breechloader.
Interestingly there is a plugged hole over the barrel pin where the drill wandered. Its a wonderful insight into the gunmaking trade where even today with all our modern gadgets such things still occur and I can see the maker grouching about it as I have at times.
The trigger guard in nearly identical form is found on Nelson Lewis rifles in the North East to Bach in California. It appears, in iron or other metal, on a number of rifles in "The American Percussion Schuetzen Rifle". These rifles were all made in the same time frame and this part surely came from a catalog which were very common by this time.

Dan
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Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: P Bettis rifle
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2014, 06:56:20 PM »
Great write-up Dan..well described even without pictures.
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Vomitus

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Re: P Bettis rifle
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2014, 07:43:31 PM »
   No kidding Taylor, well done Dan. Hardly need the picture.

Offline Dphariss

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Re: P Bettis rifle
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2014, 08:04:01 PM »
Great write-up Dan..well described even without pictures.
Not too many typos....
Its supposed to say "a few inches behind the entry pipe" but I had to take my wife someplace the am and hit post and ran out the door.

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline PPatch

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Re: P Bettis rifle
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2014, 10:41:50 PM »
Thank you Dan! Great find, great description, and I look forward to more photographs when you have time. Interesting gun and in pretty good shape for its age and obvious useage. Be really interesting to know more of its journey from Georgia to Montana, some history right there.

dp
« Last Edit: March 30, 2014, 12:02:55 AM by PPatch »
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Offline Dphariss

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Re: P Bettis rifle
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2014, 12:01:48 AM »





















The barrel is tapered from .890 in front of the drum to about .865 at the rear sight it then maintains this dimension to the muzzle with variations within .010. right at the end of the forend.
Length of pull near 13.6". There are some other measurements in other photos at

http://s72.photobucket.com/user/DPhariss/library/P%20Bettis%20rifle?sort=3&page=1

If someone wants to select some photos and post them with the other P Bettis rifle in the museum section please feel free. There are 53 new ones to select from. One of the overhead shots seems to make is appear the rifle has cast on. It does not. Its just something the camera or cameraman did.
Tang is held by wood screws. These were very rusty in the threads so I lightly brushed them to remove the loose rust. These are machine made BTW. The rod channel is cut into the bottom of the barrel channel the original hole went wrong and was abandoned the small hole in the forend goes into the drilled hole and is visible from the cut channel in the forend.
More photos to come.
Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline Dphariss

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Re: P Bettis rifle
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2014, 12:19:06 AM »






The barrel channel is nicely cut with flats. Not gouged out as was sometimes done.
The hole that is broken into the rod hole is some distance below the bottom line the the rod channel. It is a skillful fix of a problem the plagues builders to this day and avoided the use of a wear plate.

Dan
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Offline TDW

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Re: P Bettis rifle
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2014, 04:36:36 AM »
Dan,
   Notice that the last picture in the link that Dale provided (the signature stamp) uses the same gap toothed half round stamp that we noticed yesterday. I think your suggestion that this is a repurposed wood chisel is right on the mark. Either he used it for some time, or the rifles are very close in the time that they were finished.
Tom W.

mulelady

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Re: P Bettis rifle
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2014, 05:39:43 PM »
This Wonderful Rifle was made by my Gr Gr Grandfather Phillip Bettis. Thanks to Dan I will be the proud new owner of this piece of art shortly. I am doing my best to find Phillips Rifles to keep for my family. Thank You so much Dan for the Beautiful Description of this Rifle.

Offline TDW

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Re: P Bettis rifle
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2014, 05:56:01 PM »
Good work Dan !! :)
   Joy, this well made piece is fun to hold as well as look at. Glad Dan was able to make this work for you!
Tom W.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2014, 05:56:57 PM by TDW »